# Now, Al Franken **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 16, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770 "2017-11-16T15:42:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/181 "2017-11-16T20:53:31Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Wow, I stumbled on what I thought was going to be an amusing distraction from this and instead found an article from earlier this year with some interesting information. Part of the controversy during his initial run was rape jokes, and when it started hurting his numbers with women, he issued an apology that he apparently thinks of as “a little white lie”. I think this is going to turn very bad for him very fast, him talking about an apology as just a ‘white lie’ less than half a year ago is going to really undercut the current one. And I’m sure the right-wing press will be all over it, no matter what other outlets do. Ouch! That’s going to leave a mark. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/182 "2017-11-16T20:55:09Z")
How does having a groper in the Senate help the Democrats? For moral reasons, but for political reasons as well, Franken should step down. Let at least the Democrats be the groper-free party. Franken can go on to try and make amends and do good things in other ways, perhaps, but as long as we have a groper in the Senate, it will be that much easier for Republicans to point at him as a “what about Franken?” distraction for a million other future disgusting things Republicans will be caught doing. This (addressing the massive problem of sexual assault/harassment, and belittling victims and accusers, in our society) will be a long and painful process, and zero-tolerance, at least for high political office, for groping and similar shittiness, should be one of the easiest parts of that process. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/183 "2017-11-16T20:56:02Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > FWIW, I don’t think Franken needs to resign over this. Though it could get interesting if other people then step forward, as has been the pattern. I’m on the fence. If he was at a party and under the influence and said something untoward or got a little grabby, that might be forgivable if it’s a one-time thing and not a pattern of conduct. Context matters. But if he forcibly kissed her then we’re getting into some seriously bad behavior here, and if other women come forward then it’s disqualifying. I’ve liked Franken, too, but he doesn’t get a pass just because he’s not an R. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/184 "2017-11-16T20:56:03Z")
What I found more interesting about the proposed Stahl sketch was not the rape one but the one where “When she passes out. I put her in various positions and take pictures of her.” Pretty similar to what actually happened here. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/185 "2017-11-16T21:04:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How does having a groper in the Senate help the Democrats? For moral reasons, but for political reasons as well, Franken should step down. Let at least the Democrats be the groper-free party. Franken can go on to try and make amends and do good things in other ways, perhaps, but as long as we have a groper in the Senate, it will be that much easier for Republicans to point at him as a “what about Franken?” distraction for a million other future disgusting things Republicans will be caught doing. This (addressing the massive problem of sexual assault/harassment, and belittling victims and accusers, in our society) will be a long and painful process, and zero-tolerance, at least for high political office, for groping and similar shittiness, should be one of the easiest parts of that process. I’m just wondering how many other women will start coming out with charges (presumably true) about other congressmen. I never for a moment believed that sexual harassment was confined to the Republican party. I’ve just felt the need to point out the blatant fake piety of Republicans and their voters. It would make me feel better to know that progressives have higher standards in terms of holding sexual predators accountable. Time will tell, and Franken is probably a very good first test case. If it turns out that Franken has a pattern of behavior and not just a one-off ‘mistake’ then the Democrats should confront him. If they don’t, then they shouldn’t expect voters to be turned off by Roy Moore. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/186 "2017-11-16T21:06:37Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Honest question, why is it fair to do ascribe political motivations to Franken’s accuser but was so wrong to do this with Moore’s accuser at the beginning? In Moore’s case, it’s accusers, plural. And they had no links to any of his political opponents. The WaPo story was very clear on that, as well they should be because it’s one of the first questions anyone should ask when hearing about these sorts of allegations. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/187 "2017-11-16T21:08:41Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What I found more interesting about the proposed Stahl sketch was not the rape one but the one where “When she passes out. I put her in various positions and take pictures of her.” Pretty similar to what actually happened here. A lot like Louis CK with his masturbation jokes. I really don’t see this ending well for him, it hasn’t even been a day and it’s exploding. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/188 "2017-11-16T21:10:20Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I don’t think her claims on TV are relevant to evaluating the accusers honesty or plausibility at all. Just like I don’t think what she was wearing was relevant, if she was wearing make up or not or what her sexual history was. > > Do you know why sex workers almost never come forward to the police when they are sexually harassed or assaulted? Its because they are judged on their job: they are judged on their past history, and they are (more often than not) dismissed because of a perceived lack of credibility. Accusations should be treated on their merit. And this one has plenty of merit. We have a photo. We have a credible story. We have a contrite accused. You are digging into her past for one reason only: to find a reason to disbelieve her, to dismiss her. Don’t fool yourself into thinking you are doing it for any honorable reason. You are comparing a documented record of right-wing activism to “what she was wearing”? I can’t respond to that outside the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/189 "2017-11-16T21:10:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How does having a groper in the Senate help the Democrats? For moral reasons, but for political reasons as well, Franken should step down. Let at least the Democrats be the groper-free party. Franken can go on to try and make amends and do good things in other ways, perhaps, but as long as we have a groper in the Senate, it will be that much easier for Republicans to point at him as a “what about Franken?” distraction for a million other future disgusting things Republicans will be caught doing. This (addressing the massive problem of sexual assault/harassment, and belittling victims and accusers, in our society) will be a long and painful process, and zero-tolerance, at least for high political office, for groping and similar shittiness, should be one of the easiest parts of that process. Hey, I agree with **iiandyiiii**! ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/190 "2017-11-16T21:12:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I am putting Moore up to #1 due to the age of the victims. > Franken? Apologize and forever forget a run for the Prz. No resignation. Weren’t the Spacey and Moore allegations both for 14 year olds? Regardless, I put this Franken thing far lower down the scale. This is more like inappropriate and unprofessional versus should spend years in jail. Not sure where I’d put Ailes and Oreilly. I honestly don’t know the details on theirs, just some generalities. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/191 "2017-11-16T21:16:14Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Hey, I agree with **iiandyiiii**! Me too. Also the angry stalker story is far scarier sounding to me than the photo. That’s mentally unhinged. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/192 "2017-11-16T21:17:37Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > You are comparing a documented record of right-wing activism to “what she was wearing”? I can’t respond to that outside the Pit. …you need to show why a “documented record of right-wing activism” casts doubt on a credible accusation that comes with a photo and a contrite accused. But you haven’t done that. You are just “throwing it out there.” Whether you like it or not you are doing exactly the same thing as people who say “what was she wearing?” And if you can’t respond to that outside of the pit its because you know what I’m saying is true. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/193 "2017-11-16T21:27:25Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Me too. > > Also the angry stalker story is far scarier sounding to me than the photo. That’s mentally unhinged. It also adds a lot of credence to Tweeden’s interpretation of the events leading to the photo. It’s kind of easy to say ‘well, maybe she was just misinterpreting what he was doing as aggressive, or maybe she’s exaggerating’ when it’s just her word against his 'I don’t recall it that way". But when you add a pattern of aggressive stalkery retaliation against women for minor insults/disagreements it’s a lot harder to dismiss aggressive stalkery retaliation against women for minor insults/disagreements. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/194 "2017-11-16T21:27:54Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …you need to show why a “documented record of right-wing activism” casts doubt on a credible accusation that comes with a photo and a contrite accused. It’s not like it’s an all-or-nothing situation, where either the entire incidents never happened or every detail she mentions and her entire interpretation is correct. Clearly Franken did some inappropriate stuff here, but there are degrees as well, and there’s room for some uncertainty as to just how severe his transgressions were. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/195 "2017-11-16T21:34:29Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s not like it’s an all-or-nothing situation, where either the entire incidents never happened or every detail she mentions and her entire interpretation is correct. > > Clearly Franken did some inappropriate stuff here, but there are degrees as well, and there’s room for some uncertainty as to just how severe his transgressions were. …this has absolutely nothing to do with my post. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/196 "2017-11-16T21:35:10Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > But when you add a pattern of aggressive stalkery retaliation against women for minor insults/disagreements it’s a lot harder to dismiss aggressive stalkery retaliation against women for minor insults/disagreements. What is this pattern you speak of? Can you give us a timeline? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/197 "2017-11-16T21:37:03Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …this has absolutely nothing to do with my post. It has everything to do with your post. Because it means that there’s still room to cite the accuser’s political affiliation despite “a photo and a contrite accused”. That said, at this point I personally wouldn’t make too much of it at this point. (In particular, the fact that she accepted his apology suggests that she’s not out to get him.) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/198 "2017-11-16T21:40:41Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …you need to show why a “documented record of right-wing activism” casts doubt on a credible accusation that comes with a photo and a contrite accused. But you haven’t done that. You are just “throwing it out there.” Credible accusation? She admitted there were no witnesses and admitted she did not tell anyone about it (except perhaps some nameless friends but no one in a position of authority). Franken disputes how the kiss went down and apologized for the picture but so far it is just a tasteless posed picture and no groping occurred (Tweeden was asleep so she cannot say whether she was groped). In the picture he is not groping her. That a politician issues an apology rather than wade into the discussion is what they all do, right and left. Absolutely nothing new there. Politics 101. It is fair to ask why this woman came forward with this information now. Why not during his previous election runs? Why not wait till his next election run (or especially if he chose to run for president)? What is special about now that she felt it was important to reveal this information that she did not feel needed revealing for the past eleven years? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/199 "2017-11-16T21:43:42Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Credible accusation? She admitted there were no witnesses and admitted she did not tell anyone about it (except perhaps some nameless friends but no one in a position of authority). Franken disputes how the kiss went down and apologized for the picture but so far it is just a tasteless posed picture and no groping occurred (Tweeden was asleep so she cannot say whether she was groped). In the picture he is not groping her. > > The a politician issues and apology rather than wade into the discussion which is what they all do, right and left. Absolutely nothing new there. Politics 101. > > It is fair to ask why this woman came forward with this information now. Why not during his previous election runs? Why not wait till his next election run? What is special about now that she felt it was important to reveal this information that she did not feel needed revealing for the past eleven years? She actually explained that in her write up. Her media team has been heavily covering the Weinstein scandal and she feels safe and supported enough to talk about it. Do you understand how sexual trauma works, at all? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/200 "2017-11-16T21:45:47Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It has everything to do with your post. Because it means that there’s still room to cite the accuser’s political affiliation despite “a photo and a contrite accused”. …it has nothing to do with my post. Having a “documented record of right-wing activism” doesn’t mean Leeann Tweeden is less credible than someone with a “documented record of left-wing activism”. > [@](#): > > That said, at this point I personally wouldn’t make too much of it at this point. (In particular, the fact that she accepted his apology suggests that she’s not out to get him.) You shouldn’t be making anything out of it at this point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770.md?page=11)