# Now, Al Franken **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 16, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770 "2017-11-16T15:42:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/201 "2017-11-16T21:46:30Z")
Is it still “groping” if there is no direct physical contact? To my eye, the picture offered in evidence shows a “pantomime” of groping. His left hand is clearly not in contact, but several inches away, as “background” is clearly visible. As to the right hand, the camera angle doesn’t make that clear. However, Sen Franken has his head turned over his right shoulder, a posture that would pull the right arm back. Don’t believe it, try it. Put both of your hands down next to each other, then turn to look back over your shoulder. Your right hand will move away. Also, how can she be sure she was groped if she claims to have been asleep? As to pursuit and harassment by Franken…she couldn’t forcefully object? Because Al Franken was so powerful within the USO? Given his political unreliability, I was surprised they let him go in the first place. Bob Hope he was not, though he could have re-used a few of those “haircut bath job” jokes that were so popular at the time. What? She was afraid of a liberal weenie? (Sorry, Al, you probably could take Trey Gowdy. But Rachel Maddow would kick your ass into next week…) And finally, a relatively minor note: Al. IIRC, did not serve. But if he managed to make a few hundred war weary soldiers laugh for even a moment…he did far more good for them than he ever could with a weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/202 "2017-11-16T21:49:37Z")
That might be the single most disappointing post I have ever seen you make, luci. I’m out. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/203 "2017-11-16T21:53:38Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …it has nothing to do with my post. Having a “documented record of right-wing activism” doesn’t mean Leeann Tweeden is less credible than someone with a “documented record of left-wing activism”. If she’s accusing a left-winger then of course it does. If the accused is a right winger then it’s the opposite way around. (All else being equal.) In any event, the part of your post I was disputing was your claim that political affiliation was moot because of “a photo and a contrite accused”. That doesn’t hold, where there’s any relevant ambiguity. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/204 "2017-11-16T21:58:37Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > She actually explained that in her write up. Her media team has been heavily covering the Weinstein scandal and she feels safe and supported enough to talk about it. > > Do you understand how sexual trauma works, at all? Not the same thing at all. Weinstein maintained real power in Hollywood. Up until very recently there could have been very real and severe consequences for crossing Weinstein. He even reputedly had a private security company working for him to stop would-be accusers. How is this true of her and Franken? Does Franken have a history of making or ruining careers in Hollywood? Is there evidence he helped or impeded Tweeden’s career in any way? Was she told by her agent she better not cross Franken or else? Did she think Franken would come back and molest her? Does Franken send security forces out to harass her? By her own account she pushed Franken away when he kissed her and threatened him if he ever did that again. That does not sound like a woman who is afraid of her attacker or in trauma over it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/205 "2017-11-16T22:05:11Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > …By her own account she pushed Franken away when he kissed her and threatened him if he ever did that again. That does not sound like a woman who is afraid of her attacker or in trauma over it. Missed this. Can cite so I don’t have to seek it out? ---
**Author:** ![ricksummon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ricksummon/32/3333_2.png) [@ricksummon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricksummon)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/206 "2017-11-16T22:05:25Z")
The other Democratic Senators are supporting the call for a full ethics investigation: [https://www.yahoo.com/news/senate-dems-leave-no-room-203047164.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/senate-dems-leave-no-room-203047164.html) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/207 "2017-11-16T22:07:24Z")
This is one of those situations in which the right thing to do is also the politically smart thing. How does a long investigation help the Democrats? How does a groper staying in the senate help the Democrats? He should just step down. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/208 "2017-11-16T22:07:32Z")
[Slate is on the warpath](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/11/al_franken_should_resign_immediately.html): > [@](#): > > There is no rational reason to doubt the truth of Tweeden’s accusations, no legitimate defense of Franken’s actions, and no ambiguity here at all: Franken should resign from the Senate immediately. Democrats should call for him to step down straightaway. This revelation is a test of the Democratic Party’s consistency, honesty, and decency. and since Weinstein came up, I thought I might share [this photo](https://i.imgur.com/WHLeqOA.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/209 "2017-11-16T22:07:45Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …it has nothing to do with my post. Having a “documented record of right-wing activism” doesn’t mean Leeann Tweeden is less credible than someone with a “documented record of left-wing activism”. > > You shouldn’t be making anything out of it at this point. Fox News commentators are prepared to tell lies in order to hurt their political opponents. If you haven’t figured that out yet, I don’t know what to tell you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/210 "2017-11-16T22:08:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [Slate is on the warpath](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/11/al_franken_should_resign_immediately.html): > > and since Weinstein came up, I thought I might share [this photo](https://i.imgur.com/WHLeqOA.jpg). They are correct. It’s time to show that the Democratic party actually is morally superior to the Republicans. A great political opportunity, if they just take it. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/211 "2017-11-16T22:11:27Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Credible accusation? …yep. > [@](#): > > She admitted there were no witnesses and admitted she did not tell anyone about it (except perhaps some nameless friends but no one in a position of authority). No witnesses? She didn’t tell anyone about it? Oh she did tell some people about it? But not an “authority?” This isn’t the exception in these sorts of story Whack-a-Mole. This is the norm. If you don’t find this accusation credible then you probably didn’t find Asia Argento’s accusation credible. Or Emily Nestor. Or Lucia Stoller. Emma de Caunes. Gwyneth Paltrow. Katherine Kendall. Léa Seydoux. Angie Everhart. > [@](#): > > Franken disputes how the kiss went down Weinstein disputes how it all went down. Cosby disputes how it all went down. Takei disputes how it all went down. Again: there isn’t anything unique here. > [@](#): > > and apologized for the picture but so far it is just a tasteless posed picture and no groping occurred (Tweeden was asleep so she cannot say whether she was groped). In the picture he is not groping her. Are you sure? That right hand sure looks like a grope to me. But lets pretend that it wasn’t a grope. Is that really your defense of the picture? It wasn’t an actual grope, but a pretend grope? That the lack of physical contact (by millimetres) is somehow an acceptable defense of this “tasteless” picture? (And I don’t agree with your characterization that this is a “posed” picture. As you point out Tweeden was asleep. She did not “pose.”) > [@](#): > > That a politician issues an apology rather than wade into the discussion is what they all do, right and left. Absolutely nothing new there. Politics 101. Irrelevant. > [@](#): > > It is fair to ask why this woman came forward with this information now. Why not during his previous election runs? Why not wait till his next election run (or especially if he chose to run for president)? What is special about now that she felt it was important to reveal this information that she did not feel needed revealing for the past eleven years? Oh for fucks sakes. It wasn’t fair to ask why Moore’s accusers have come out right before the election, and it isn’t fair to question why Leeann Tweeden (she has a name) has come forward now. If you hadn’t noticed: the last couple of weeks have been an empowering one for women. Women had come out before. And they have been historically generally disbelieved before. But they are being believed just a little bit more now. (Unless they hold the wrong political viewpoint: as this thread demonstrates.) So if anybody is wondering why a women chooses to come forward \*\*now \*\*with historical allegations of sexual harassment or abuse then the only conclusion I can come to is that they must have been in a coma the last month. Because otherwise how on earth can you have missed the sea-change that is happening in society right now? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/212 "2017-11-16T22:12:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Missed this. Can cite so I don’t have to seek it out? Sure. From Leeann Tweeden’s original story on this: > [@](#): > > He repeated that actors really need to rehearse everything and that we must practice the kiss. I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me. We did the line leading up to the kiss and then he came at me, put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth. > > I immediately pushed him away with both of my hands against his chest and told him if he ever did that to me again I wouldn’t be so nice about it the next time. > > I walked away. All I could think about was getting to a bathroom as fast as possible to rinse the taste of him out of my mouth. > > I felt disgusted and violated. > > SOURCE: [Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny About It – KABC-AM](http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/213 "2017-11-16T22:13:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They are correct. It’s time to show that the Democratic party actually is morally superior to the Republicans. A great political opportunity, if they just take it. I for one would have a harder time snickering at them and making jokes about “if they go low, we go high” if they would, but with posters like Thing Fish, elucidator, and Whack-a-Mole, I don’t think there’s much danger of it. I wish you luck in jousting at your windmills though. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/214 "2017-11-16T22:16:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Sure. From Leeann Tweeden’s original story on this: Yep it was there, and my eyes ran right over it. “Golden years”, my ass… ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/215 "2017-11-16T22:16:20Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > If you hadn’t noticed: the last couple of weeks have been an empowering one for women. Women had come out before. And they have been historically generally disbelieved before. But they are being believed just a little bit more now. (Unless they hold the wrong political viewpoint: as this thread demonstrates.) So if anybody is wondering why a women chooses to come forward \*\*now \*\*with historical allegations of sexual harassment or abuse then the only conclusion I can come to is that they must have been in a coma the last month. Because otherwise how on earth can you have missed the sea-change that is happening in society right now? I agree with this. In the current post-Weinstein atmosphere it’s pretty apparent that sex harassment accusers are going to get a pretty sympathetic hearing. It makes sense that many people who were reluctant to come forward until now would do so at this point. I don’t see anything suspicious at all about her timing. It’s not like Franken is in middle of an election. (The notion that this is an indirect way of helping Moore seems very far-fetched, especially as it’s not likely to be effective.) There are many people accusing all sorts of people these days - you can’t go a couple of days without a new accusation. (I think Stallone is the latest.) Most of these people are not even involved in politics. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/216 "2017-11-16T22:20:35Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What is this pattern you speak of? So far it’s the two incidents I’ve quoted already in this thread (in some cases multiple times) so I won’t quote again, but I expect more incidents to come to light now that the door is open. I’m not really sure why you’re on the defense train for the guy, but it’s looking more and more like it’s going to be the defense train wreck within a week. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/217 "2017-11-16T22:21:38Z")
One thing I don’t get is all this smack talk about the Republican Party. Is this the same Republican Party whose leaders have called on Moore to drop out of the race, threatened to expel him from the Senate if he gets elected, and said ““He’s obviously not fit to be in the United States Senate, and we’ve looked at all the options to try and prevent that from happening”? Or some other Republican Party? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/218 "2017-11-16T22:27:02Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > No witnesses? She didn’t tell anyone about it? Oh she did tell some people about it? But not an “authority?” > > This isn’t the exception in these sorts of story Whack-a-Mole. This is the norm. If you don’t find this accusation credible then you probably didn’t find Asia Argento’s accusation credible. Or Emily Nestor. Or Lucia Stoller. Emma de Caunes. Gwyneth Paltrow. Katherine Kendall. Léa Seydoux. Angie Everhart. > > Weinstein disputes how it all went down. Cosby disputes how it all went down. Takei disputes how it all went down. Again: there isn’t anything unique here. I hereby state that **Banquet Bear** molested me fifteen years ago.\* I didn’t tell anyone at the time but so what? That’s the norm. I am willing to bet **Banquet Bear** disputes this but then all molesters do. **Banquet Bear** should resign from whatever job he’s at. I would have come forward sooner but I was too afraid to. Now I feel emboldened and safe to let the world know. \ ***That statement is 100% not true. I made it up to make a point.** Apparently though **Banquet Bear** thinks my accusation should be all that is needed. > [@](#): > > Are you sure? That right hand sure looks like a grope to me. But lets pretend that it wasn’t a grope. Is that really your defense of the picture? It wasn’t an actual grope, but a pretend grope? That the lack of physical contact (by millimetres) is somehow an acceptable defense of this “tasteless” picture? (And I don’t agree with your characterization that this is a “posed” picture. As you point out Tweeden was asleep. She did not “pose.”) Yes I am sure that picture does not show groping. Tweeden cannot say whether she was groped either since she was asleep. Unless someone on the plane testifies that Franken went on to feel Tweeden up there is no evidence she was groped. This is important because the photo is merely tasteless. Groping her is sexual assault and a crime. Bit of a difference there. > [@](#): > > Irrelevant. It is relevant in ascertaining how contrite you think Franken is and whether his apology is an admission he committed a crime. > [@](#): > > Oh for fucks sakes. It wasn’t fair to ask why Moore’s accusers have come out right before the election, and it isn’t fair to question why Leeann Tweeden (she has a name) has come forward now. If you hadn’t noticed: the last couple of weeks have been an empowering one for women. Women had come out before. And they have been historically generally disbelieved before. But they are being believed just a little bit more now. (Unless they hold the wrong political viewpoint: as this thread demonstrates.) So if anybody is wondering why a women chooses to come forward \*\*now \*\*with historical allegations of sexual harassment or abuse then the only conclusion I can come to is that they must have been in a coma the last month. Because otherwise how on earth can you have missed the sea-change that is happening in society right now? Of course it was fair to ask why Moore’s accusers came forward. Certainly the first one or two. There is always a question implicit in these accusations of far distant past events of why the accuser waited so long. And as I noted while Moore and Weinstein and Spacey wield sufficient power to be a credible threat to a would-be accuser I am not seeing where Tweeden had reason to fear reprisal of any sort from Franken. And as for using Tweeden’s name I have done so repeatedly in this thread. Feel free to check. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/219 "2017-11-16T22:28:20Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I for one would have a harder time snickering at them and making jokes about “if they go low, we go high” if they would, but with posters like Thing Fish, elucidator, and Whack-a-Mole, I don’t think there’s much danger of it. I wish you luck in jousting at your windmills though. I don’t care to be lumped in with those two. The photo shows him making a tasteless, offensive and sexist “joke” for which he damn well should be contrite. Whether he is actually touching her may be relevant as to whether it legally constitutes sexual assault, but doesn’t change that fact. I personally don’t think that what’s shown in this picture rises to the level of “let’s demand his immediate resignation from the Senate”, but it’s really, really icky. And I agree that, whatever other reasons there may be to question the accuser’s credibility, the “well, why did she wait until now to tell anyone?” line is always inappropriate. As of now, I don’t think that there is sufficient evidence of serious wrongdoing to say that the party leadership should pressure him to resign. If he thinks it best for him to leave rather than become a distraction, I would certainly not try to talk him out of it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/220 "2017-11-16T22:30:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > …Or some other Republican Party? In case you haven’t noticed, there are at least two. Your Father’s Oldsmobile Republicans…Mittens, Jeb(!) and that ilk, and their tormentors, the Batshit Baboons. In that struggle, I favor Romney, though I still would like someone to explain how he’s had the same touch of grey at the temples for fifteen years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770.md?page=12)