# Now, Al Franken **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 16, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770 "2017-11-16T15:42:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 82
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1622 "2019-07-25T02:35:41Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Sherrerd, nothing in your post addresses the photo taken of Tweeden while she was asleep. Or this: > [@](#): > > “He was between me and the door, and he was coming at me to kiss me. It was very quick, and I think my brain had to work really hard to be like ‘Wait, what is happening?’ But I knew whatever was happening was not right, and I ducked,” the former aide said in an interview. “I was really startled by it, and I just sort of booked it towards the door, and he said, ‘It’s my right as an entertainer.’”. [https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/al-franken-accusation-sexual-harassment-2006-281049](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/al-franken-accusation-sexual-harassment-2006-281049) Or the fact that the women Franken touched felt it was inappropriate. What’s the phrase? “Married to a delusional belief.” ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1623 "2019-07-25T02:48:17Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > This is so bizarre. On the same board where it’s not considered okay for any of us common folk to say Jeopardy champ James Holzhauer is “nice looking”, hardly anyone agrees with me that taking this kind of photo while a woman is sleeping and then spreading it around to everyone on the tour, right before running for Senate, is disqualifying? 😕! [Let’s all take a good look at the photo](https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2017/11/AlFranken/lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691913), just to refresh our memories. Is Franken invading her personal space? Certainly, and most definitely without her consent. Is Franken grabbing boobs? Looks to me like right hand is, left hand barely touching. Is he deriving sexual pleasure from it? I don’t think so. In 2006 Al Franken was a comedian with aspirations to political office. He often provided smart, witty commentary on current events, but he also was known for stupid, silly, juvenile humor. Al Franken was playing a naughty boy. He’s not the first comedian (or the first politician, for that matter) to cross the line between humor and poor taste, and to have his career blow up because of it. Nor will he be the last. Does the punishment fit the crime? That’s not for me to say. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1624 "2019-07-25T04:11:21Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > [Let’s all take a good look at the photo](https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2017/11/AlFranken/lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691913), just to refresh our memories. > > Is Franken invading her personal space? Certainly, and most definitely without her consent. Is Franken grabbing boobs? Looks to me like right hand is, left hand barely touching. It’s hard to tell from the angle of the photo how close his hands actually are to her. I don’t think he’s touching her, but I can’t tell for sure. If I understand the _New Yorker_ article correctly, the photo was sort of a re-enactment of something they had done on stage. > [@](#): > > It’s understandable that Tweeden objected to Franken’s having reënacted the gag for a photograph while she was asleep. But when she wrote, “How dare anyone grab my breasts like this and think it’s funny?,” she omitted the fact that she had performed the “breast exam” bit multiple times. Metadata from the camera suggests that, contrary to Tweeden’s statement, the image was taken not on Christmas Eve, 2006, as a final taunt, but on December 21st. Photographs of a stage performance the previous day show Franken advancing toward Tweeden with splayed hands as she fends him off with a script, smiling in a winter coat and a Santa Claus hat. IMHO this doesn’t completely excuse it but it does mitigate it, as Franken may have had reason to believe that she would have taken it in the spirit it was intended, as harmless goofing around. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1625 "2019-07-25T04:40:21Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > [Let’s all take a good look at the photo](https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2017/11/AlFranken/lead_720_405.jpg?mod=1533691913), just to refresh our memories. > > Is Franken invading her personal space? Certainly, and most definitely without her consent. Is Franken grabbing boobs? Looks to me like right hand is, left hand barely touching. **Is he deriving sexual pleasure from it? I don’t think so.** What the fuck difference does it make if he’s getting sexual pleasure from it? Why are you parsing this like there’s some acceptable degree of taking a picture of an unconscious woman while grabbing her tits? There isn’t, unless she consents. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1626 "2019-07-25T05:19:13Z")
lol grabbing her tits, through a bullet proof vest, yeah I bet he got a really good feel! I always thought Franken was a fucking idiot and was glad he resigned but he’s not grabbing anyone’s tits in that photo, the other accusations of groping during photos, I can’t say, I wasn’t there. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1627 "2019-07-25T05:51:23Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > What the fuck difference does it make if he’s getting sexual pleasure from it? Why are you parsing this like there’s some acceptable degree of taking a picture of an unconscious woman while grabbing her tits? There isn’t, unless she consents. I actually don’t think he touched her. But it’s still extremely disrespectful—and again, this is right as he was laying the groundwork for his run for office that, frankly, almost cost Democrats a Senate seat. (Any of the other “normal” DFL primary candidates would have one easily instead of taking months to settle the recount.) Feel sad for him if you want. But politics ain’t beanbag, and rallying behind him would have completely blown up Democrats’ ability to call out Republicans for their sexual harassment shit. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1628 "2019-07-25T06:00:32Z")
> [@pool](#): > > lol grabbing her tits, through a bullet proof vest, yeah I bet he got a really good feel! > > I always thought Franken was a fucking idiot and was glad he resigned but he’s not grabbing anyone’s tits in that photo, the other accusations of groping during photos, I can’t say, I wasn’t there. Again, what difference does it make if he’s grabbing or pretending to grab? If he “got a really good feel”? If he didn’t actually get a real handful, the picture wasn’t a problem? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1629 "2019-07-25T06:27:37Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Any of the other “normal” DFL primary candidates would have one easily Ugh, WON easily. Due to a bad case of tennis elbow, I have had to give up typing (as well as switching to playing tennis left-handed) and now compose all my posts using Siri dictation on my phone. Homophones are a bitch! ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1630 "2019-07-25T11:09:17Z")
> [@pool](#): > > lol grabbing her tits, through a bullet proof vest, yeah I bet he got a really good feel! > > I always thought Franken was a fucking idiot and was glad he resigned but he’s not grabbing anyone’s tits in that photo, the other accusations of groping during photos, I can’t say, I wasn’t there. He’s using an unconscious woman as a prop in his sex joke. Some people are ok with that, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1631 "2019-07-25T12:28:29Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Again, what difference does it make if he’s grabbing or pretending to grab? If he “got a really good feel”? If he didn’t actually get a real handful, the picture wasn’t a problem? What difference does it make whether he assaulted her or was just pretending to assault her? I can’t believe that’s a serious question. How ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1632 "2019-07-25T12:45:55Z")
I’m not disputing the picture was inappropriate, I’m disputing that he actually grabbed, groped, or felt her breasts, at least from the evidence in the photo, as to anything that may have happened before or after the photo, again I wasn’t there. I do however find it disingenuous to say he is physically grabbing her breasts in that photo. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1633 "2019-07-25T13:11:00Z")
This thread is evidence that Al Franken needs to stay gone. He’s a divisive figure and his supporters have to twist themselves in to such ethical pretzels that they sound like Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1634 "2019-07-25T13:17:08Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > He’s using an unconscious woman as a prop in his sex joke. Some people are ok with that, apparently. Comic uses sleeping person as a prop for a juvenile joke! News at 11! Also Francisco Franco Still Dead! Whatever. This is old news. Whether one believes that he needed to be sacrificed so that the Democratic party could maintain a high and pure ground of zero tolerance on #metoo issues and avoid whataboutism, or if one believes his being drummed out of office and political life was justice or a travesty, what value is being served by this relitigation? I do not believe this is the work of Russian trolls but it certainly is the work they’d want done: reanimating an issue that wedges between liberals and divides Democrats. Leave Franco’s corpse to rot. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1635 "2019-07-25T13:23:47Z")
Here’s the thing, Franken can serve the country in other ways than being a Senator. He’s not entitled to that role. Moreover, he should have known all along that politics is a bare-knuckle sport and he’s an idiot (or deluded) if he thought for a moment that he could run in the party that has historically represented women’s rights and not have that lurking in the background as a potential problem. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1636 "2019-07-25T13:29:51Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Comic uses sleeping person as a prop for a juvenile joke! News at 11! Also Francisco Franco Still Dead! > > Whatever. This is old news. Whether one believes that he needed to be sacrificed so that the Democratic party could maintain a high and pure ground of zero tolerance on #metoo issues and avoid whataboutism, or if one believes his being drummed out of office and political life was justice or a travesty, what value is being served by this relitigation? > > I do not believe this is the work of Russian trolls but it certainly is the work they’d want done: reanimating an issue that wedges between liberals and divides Democrats. > > Leave Franco’s corpse to rot. Older white voters fail to grasp changes in culture! News at 11. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1637 "2019-07-25T13:36:17Z")
asahi, Entitled? Where are getting entitled? He is certainly “entitled” to try to run again. And voters are entitled to vote for him or not in primaries and the general if he made it. It would however be _best_ if he didn’t even float anything like that until after 2020. madmonk, Amazingly enough your specific bubble does not American culture make. Of course neither is my bubble … but voters in his state would tell him what they think and what their culture is if he did run again. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1638 "2019-07-25T13:39:53Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Older white voters fail to grasp changes in culture! News at 11. Thank goodness we have hip middle aged white people like you to show us the way. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1639 "2019-07-25T13:51:25Z")
He’s sexually objectifying her in that picture. If he touched her, it would be sexual assault. Just because he didn’t touch her doesn’t make it okay. He was still sexually objectifying her by pretending to touch her breasts. Should anyone think that’s okay, I urge you to pantomime squeezing the breasts of one of the women at your job and then report back with how many milliseconds it took for you to be fired. However, I will admit there are times when things like that are okay. If they were really close friends who had a habit of pranking each other, then I could see this as just part of their relationship. If it’s 100% certain that the other person won’t be offended and would see the humor, then it could be okay. But that is not the case in this situation. He did not have that kind of relationship with her, and she did not appreciate it. Like most women, she’s justifiably offended by being sexually objectified. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1640 "2019-07-25T13:59:32Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Thank goodness we have hip middle aged white people like you to show us the way. You’re welcome. Here’s a pro-tip: listen more. When people who you are used to dismissing and who are frequently the props in your jokes start to say they don’t like it, listen. Also, accept the fact that you are no longer the arbiter of culture and let others have their space at the table. Franken represents the worst of baby boomer “liberals,” our politics and culture have calcified around their weary bones. About 1990, they all said “good enough” and we’ve been stuck living in Franken and company’s stagnant world. Follow the light Al and get out of the way. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/1641 "2019-07-25T14:01:42Z")
I don’t need your advice on how to navigate this scary new world. I watched it unfold and grasp it just as well as you, my friend. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770.md?page=81) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770.md?page=83)