# Now, Al Franken **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 16, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770 "2017-11-16T15:42:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/161 "2017-11-16T20:15:33Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Honest question, why is it fair to do ascribe political motivations to Franken’s accuser but was so wrong to do this with Moore’s accuser at the beginning? I believe Moore’s accuser is a Trump supporter. So there’s no apparent basis for a political motivation. (I believe the political motivation angle in the case of Moore’s accusers involves them being manipulated by a Vast Left Wing Conspiracy, which is much shakier ground.) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/162 "2017-11-16T20:19:39Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > (I believe the political motivation angle in the case of Moore’s accusers involves them being manipulated by a Vast Left Wing Conspiracy, which is much shakier ground.) Yup… The liberals threw Weinstein, Cosby and Spacey under the bus to pave the way for accusations against Moore. They are tricksy like that. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/163 "2017-11-16T20:21:57Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > I think an ethics investigation is appropriate. If it finds no other incidents then I can see my way toward some minor punishment, but calls for resignation are too far. On the spectrum of recent notable incidents, I’d rank them about like this. > > 1. Weinstein > 2. Cosby > 3. Moore > 4. Spacey > > gap > > 1. Louis C. K. > > big gap > > 1. Franken > 2. Bush > > I’m not a Democrat. This just doesn’t seem that bad to me. I guess we’ll see what the ethics investigation turns up though. You forgot Bill O’Reilly and Roger Ailes. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/164 "2017-11-16T20:22:26Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I should be pleased that a Democrat is in deep doodoo but I’m not. If a man’s political career can be destroyed over this one incident then we should all be worried. Why? Is it the sort of thing that ‘we all’ have done at one time or another, and need to fear being outed about? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/165 "2017-11-16T20:25:47Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > You forgot Bill O’Reilly and Roger Ailes. And the Donald. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/166 "2017-11-16T20:27:44Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I believe Moore’s accuser is a Trump supporter. Which one? There are 6 as of this morning. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/167 "2017-11-16T20:30:03Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Twitter reports of another one incoming. [Melanie Morgan](https://mediaequalizer.com/brian-maloney/2017/11/melanie-morgan-after-tv-appearance-al-franken-harassed-me-too). But not at all sexual in nature. He apparently felt that she was spouting bullshit on _Politically Incorrect_ and expressed anger about it. Not really in the same league at all. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/168 "2017-11-16T20:30:42Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Pantastic wrote: “So you’re saying you don’t think the Democrats should actually strive to be better than Republicans…” Yes, I do. But having said that the old “when they go low, we go high” thing (which kind of takes on a different meaning in this whole context) isn’t all that different functionally from bringing the proverbial knife to the proverbial gunfight. If you don’t actually go high, then you’re not engaging in ‘when they go low, we go high’, you’re doing something more like ‘when we go low, we pretend to go high and then wonder why no one believes that we’re going high’. > [@](#): > > And regarding the seriousness of the transgression, I did not characterize it as minor but as _relatively_ minor. You know, as compared to Moore or trump. Yeah, “I’m not as bad as Trump so you have to vote for me” worked wonders for the Clinton campaign! There’s no possible way it could work out badly for Democrats to offer the voters a choice between “Trump” and “Not quite as bad, but we still lack principles and are still going to screw you”, even if they tack “the screwing may be literal if that’s what one of our Senators wants” onto the end of it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/169 "2017-11-16T20:33:03Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > “Defense” of what? 😕 Groping a woman, or at least pretending to grope a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/170 "2017-11-16T20:35:31Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > But he’s never gonna be president now. That’s one less thing to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/171 "2017-11-16T20:36:45Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > [Melanie Morgan](https://mediaequalizer.com/brian-maloney/2017/11/melanie-morgan-after-tv-appearance-al-franken-harassed-me-too). But not at all sexual in nature. He apparently felt that she was spouting bullshit on _Politically Incorrect_ and expressed anger about it. Not really in the same league at all. Wow, talk about trying to minimize some seriously scary behavior. According to the article, he approached her backstage, kept following her and physically intimidating her, used his position to get her phone number, then repeatedly called her home to badger her. He only stopped after she threatened to call police and file a report! I think that physically following a smaller person around, and using your position to get private information about them so that you can badger them for days is a bit beyond ‘expressed anger’. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/172 "2017-11-16T20:36:49Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Which one? There are 6 as of this morning. I think there are 9, but who’s counting? I was referring to the first one, I think. But in any event as long as one or more were Trump supporters, it’s harder to make the case that it’s politically motivated. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Groping a woman, or at least pretending to grope a woman. The words you quoted were not a defense of any of this, or anything else. If you trace back the exchange, you’ll see I was discussing whether she had any unique insight as to exactly what Franken intended with his “grope” beyond what’s visible from the picture. If she was sleeping, then she probably did not. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/173 "2017-11-16T20:39:57Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > I think an ethics investigation is appropriate. If it finds no other incidents then I can see my way toward some minor punishment, but calls for resignation are too far. On the spectrum of recent notable incidents, I’d rank them about like this. > > 1. Weinstein > 2. Cosby > 3. Moore > 4. Spacey > > gap > > 1. Louis C. K. > > big gap > > 1. Franken > 2. Bush > > I’m not a Democrat. This just doesn’t seem that bad to me. I guess we’ll see what the ethics investigation turns up though. I am putting Moore up to #1 due to the age of the victims. Franken? Apologize and forever forget a run for the Prz. No resignation. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/174 "2017-11-16T20:41:58Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > [Melanie Morgan](https://mediaequalizer.com/brian-maloney/2017/11/melanie-morgan-after-tv-appearance-al-franken-harassed-me-too). But not at all sexual in nature. He apparently felt that she was spouting bullshit on _Politically Incorrect_ and expressed anger about it. Not really in the same league at all. Not sexual but is reminiscent of Clinton’s complaint about Trump following her on stage. Definitely sounds like harassment: > [@](#): > > “He approached me backstage, angrily called me out on those numbers and insisted he would prove he was right. He wouldn’t leave me alone, he kept following me. As a woman, his presence and proximity to me felt very threatening and intimidating,” Morgan said. “I didn’t realize his creepy behavior after the show meant it would continue in the days to come. > > “He approached Carol, the show’s producer and demanded my home phone number, which was a clear violation of network protocol. I had thought that was the end of the story and was shocked when he started calling my home, badgering me repeatedly,” she said. > > “I became fearful and called Carol to complain and asked her to tell him to back off. But he made another call after that. I thought that he might end up stalking me at my home in Northern California, it was that bad,” she said. “By the third phone call I was outraged and terrified, as he is really disturbed,” Morgan recounted. From [here.](http://heavy.com/news/2017/11/melanie-morgan-al-franken-harassment-senator/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/175 "2017-11-16T20:43:11Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > I think an ethics investigation is appropriate. If it finds no other incidents then I can see my way toward some minor punishment, but calls for resignation are too far. On the spectrum of recent notable incidents, I’d rank them about like this. > > 1. Weinstein > 2. Cosby > 3. Moore > 4. Spacey > > gap > > 1. Louis C. K. > > big gap > > 1. Franken > 2. Bush > > I’m not a Democrat. This just doesn’t seem that bad to me. I guess we’ll see what the ethics investigation turns up though. Hard to rank some of thees guys, but of your top 4, Cosby is the only one who drugged his victims, no? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/176 "2017-11-16T20:43:56Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > So you think that the fact that she went on national TV to claim that President Obama was born in Kenya isn’t relevant to evaluating the accuser’s honesty and plausibility? …I don’t think her claims on TV are relevant to evaluating the accusers honesty or plausibility at all. Just like I don’t think what she was wearing was relevant, if she was wearing make up or not or what her sexual history was. Do you know why sex workers almost never come forward to the police when they are sexually harassed or assaulted? Its because they are judged on their job: they are judged on their past history, and they are (more often than not) dismissed because of a perceived lack of credibility. Accusations should be treated on their merit. And this one has plenty of merit. We have a photo. We have a credible story. We have a contrite accused. You are digging into her past for one reason only: to find a reason to disbelieve her, to dismiss her. Don’t fool yourself into thinking you are doing it for any honorable reason. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/177 "2017-11-16T20:44:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Franken? Apologize and forever forget a run for the Prz. No resignation. Not if he switches to the Republican party. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/178 "2017-11-16T20:45:32Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > … If you trace back the exchange, you’ll see I was discussing whether she had any unique insight as to exactly what Franken intended with his “grope” beyond what’s visible from the picture. If she was sleeping, then she probably did not. Then you have my apologies. I misunderstood the context behind the comment. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/179 "2017-11-16T20:48:54Z")
Wow, I stumbled on what I thought was going to be an amusing distraction from this and instead found an article from earlier this year with some interesting information. Part of the controversy during his initial run was rape jokes, and when it started hurting his numbers with women, he issued an apology that he apparently thinks of as “a little white lie”. I think this is going to turn very bad for him very fast, him talking about an apology as just a ‘white lie’ less than half a year ago is going to really undercut the current one. And I’m sure the right-wing press will be all over it, no matter what other outlets do. > [@https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/29/books/review/al-franken-giant-of-the-senate.html](#): > > “Al Franken, Giant of the Senate” is, in part, the story of how Franken became a giant phony — how he pretended to be a serious person in public even as his inner comic monologue never stopped running. He recalls that during the 2008 campaign, he was attacked for such transgressions\*\* as a late-night writers’-room joke about raping Lesley Stahl,\*\* and a 2000 Playboy article entitled “Porn-o-Rama.” Franken didn’t think he should have to apologize for the cracks, which his opponents were taking out of context. “To say I was sorry for writing a joke was to sell out my career, to sell out who I’d been my entire life,” he writes. “And \*\*I wasn’t sorry that I had written Porn-o-Rama or pitched that stupid Lesley Stahl joke at 2 in the morning. \*\*I was just doing my job.” > > But as the attacks caused Franken to bleed support from women voters, he saw that his explanations weren’t working. “I learned that campaigns have their own rules, their own laws of physics, and that if I wasn’t willing to accept that, I would never get to be a senator.” **And so Franken took a deep breath and told a little white lie: “I’m sorry.”** ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770/180 "2017-11-16T20:51:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hard to rank some of thees guys, but of your top 4, Cosby is the only one who drugged his victims, no? …good god. Ranking these pieces of utter filth is bad enough: but lets not quibble if Bill “he drugged his victims” Cosby and Harvey “one of his victim has slept with a baseball bat next to her bed for the last 20 years” Weinstein should get the number one spot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-al-franken/801770.md?page=10)