Franken may have no choice at this point – this is clearly a pattern of behavior and I’m fine with replacing someone who is a serial groper, particularly if the polls suggest that replacing him with another democrat would be a wise move. My comments earlier were made when we were standing at 1 or 2 accusers, but now it’s 4 and before long it could be 10. Who knows? I think Franken’s political capital is spent.
Meanwhile there’s Joe Barten.
Maybe we should start an over-under on the final number of accusers for Moore, Conyers, Franken…
There is now a pattern of apparently credible accusations that, no are not ones of “assault”, but are ones of inappropriate and lecherous behavior toward women. With that established I’ve moved into John Mace’s camp. He is revealed to be hypocritical and his ability to articulate and represent progressive positions to the public at large and to convincingly make those cases - which he had been great at - is now knee capped.
It does seem though that this sort of behavior (way short of Moore-like assault or pussy grabbing but still not to be tolerated) is going to be revealed as pretty SOP among many Congresscritters. If resignation actually occurs by all who are credibly accused we may have a fair amount of turn over … Not saying we shouldn’t mid you.
(Personally I’m waiting for a Bernie accusation next.)
Yup. I still have questions about the USO tour, but the multiple accusations of grabassery settle this even more than the single accusation of grabassery did.
Ugh. That one sounds messy.
I never said you said Franken should not be allowed a defense. I said you are taking backhanded swipes at people attempting a defense. I then asked you what defense you would deem acceptable which you are dodging answering.
So I will answer your question. Hopefully you will answer mine.
I never said you did. Do you know what the word “imply” means"
OK, you got me. I think that Al Franken does not allowed a defense, and if your quotes don’t prove that, they strongly imply it. I feel so ashamed, and I can see why you would ask that question. Burn the witch!!!
But heaven forbid I challenge any given defense. Because if I do, that’s a good indication that I think he’s not allowed one.
And you dodged my question again. Why am I not surprised?
You did not challenge a defense someone provided. You dismissed it. You did not address what was provided and note its drawbacks or engage in any sort of debate. You handwaved it away with some snark.
So yeah, you should feel ashamed.
The questions about the tour are seeming rather moot to me. Even if this started out as a conspiracy to gin up controversy about a prominent and effective Democrat it looks like it has brought to light a darker side of Senator Franken. I expect he will resign.
My guess is the accusations against Franken dry up after Dec. 12.
To be ruthlessly fair, I already admit to suspicion, not like I can prove anything. I don’t trust anyone who cashes checks for simpering about how brilliant Sean Hannity is. Others are not burdened with such a bias, I can understand that. Well, at least I can accept that. I guess.
The groping assaults tend to lead one to interpret the USO evidence more harshly.
Tweeden’s stance - accept the apology but hold off on calling for resignation - looks better and better. We all make mistakes. But some of us like to do shit that they think they can get away with. If people come out of the woodwork with credible accusations then harsher interpretations are warranted.
The Huffpo article was written by a real reporter, formerly of MSNBC. One of the witnesses told that reporter of the incident years ago (but didn’t want it reported back then). The 2 incidents occurred in 2007 and 2008. Menz’s story is from 2010. Taken together, it looks pretty solid.
This looks to me like conduct unbecoming of a Senator. I don’t care how common it is. It deserves sanction, IMHO.
Separately, I think if a US citizen is shown to grope someone else with evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, they should risk jail time IMO. This isn’t ha-ha stuff for me: it pisses me off.
What is surprising is that this conduct has been known about for so long yet never saw the light of day until now. It’s like the exposure of Weinstein pulled down a screen that was shielding all these people and we finally saw just who they really were.
Yeah, I’m feeling that.
Yeah, it encouraged women to speak out against powerful people. I know I rant about the evils of the social media age, but this is obviously one aspect of the new digital age that’s positive. It’s much easier for information to get out, much easier for multiple victims to connect and share their stories. Much more difficult for serial abusers to keep their misdeeds tucked away out of sight. I’m guessing there are probably a LOT of household names in business, entertainment, and politics who are shitting their britches right now, wondering when it’s going to be their turn.
Nobody cared about JFK and all his girlfriends , guess that was just an alpha male doing a regular thing. Standards change and when they do a lot of people are suddenly doing things that are no longer OK.
I noticed that, despite this thread continuing to grow, this morning’s paper (5 pounds of ads - ugh!) contained not a mention of Franken. The public’s attention is short indeed.
I’m not defending buttgrabbing. But it is hard for me to reconcile the idea that such behavior disqualifies a senator, when we see the ongoing antics of our president… And, as someone suggested upthread, I do not see the ultimate good - for Dems or the nation as a whole - for Dems to self discipline so much more harshly than the Repubs.
For the time being, at least, I’m favoring the opinion that even serial buttgrabbing is something from which someone can be rehabilitated and continue to remain effective in a position of authority.
Apparently, his minders were under standing orders to keep pretty (or any female) members of the press corps, various military auxiliary services etc as far away from JFK as possible.
While that’s true (see John Edwards), what we’re talking about here is not a bunch of “girlfriends”. Would you really call any of the women accusing Franken a “girlfriend”.
But yeah, standards about sexual impropriety change over time. Mostly, that’s a good thing. It’s nice to know that powerful men can now be called on actions where they treat women with disrespect.
Is there any evidence that what JFK did was non-consensual?