So you’re saying you don’t think the Democrats should actually strive to be better than Republicans, and that they should only be opposed to sexual assault if it serves to give them more power? That’s pretty awful, and very damaging to sexual assault victims. And might explain the difficulties Democrats have in trying to claim the high ground against Republicans.
Also, Al Franken doesn’t think this was a minor transgression that should be glossed over, “It’s completely inappropriate… And, what’s more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.”
Yeah. Asking for the resignation of a sitting Senator should be an extraordinary step. I think we’re asking for trouble if we lower the bar below “highly credible allegations of serious criminal behavior in the recent past”. (and to be clear, the “highly credible” part is what, at least as of yet, I’m not seeing her; the alleged conduct certainly merits resignation). Failing that, let the voters express their judgment at the next regularly scheduled election.
So you think that the fact that she went on national TV to claim that President Obama was born in Kenya isn’t relevant to evaluating the accuser’s honesty and plausibility?
Bias exists, but it can exist in any direction. I don’t see how political affiliation is relevant.
If there’s evidence that they lied for political gain, then okay. But until and unless that (or other evidence of lying) is found, every accusation should be treated and approached the same, IMO. That means no attacking accusers for being on one side or the other.
Seems appropriate reading for those thinking an investigation in Franken is worthwhile. Not much to investigate anyway. She said, he mostly acknowledged.
For political claims, yes (assuming she did). Not for claims about personal mistreatment. Not unless you have evidence she lied about Franken.
I find the attacks in your posts on this women for nothing more than coming forward and telling a story (a story that Franken has almost entirely admitted to and apologized for) to be disgusting, and to contribute to this shit culture we have about women who accuse men of mistreatment. That attitude helps abusers, and hurts victims.
I should be pleased that a Democrat is in deep doodoo but I’m not. If a man’s political career can be destroyed over this one incident then we should all be worried.
People are biased in the direction of their political affiliation. People think more negatively of people they’re opposed to politically, and are more apt to interpret their actions negatively. In addition, they’re biased by their ability to impact politics in their preferred direction.
Even if there’s no evidence, it needs to be considered as a possibility. It’s silly to ignore it. The actual likelihood would vary based on the circumstances of the particular case, and the supporting evidence.
Pantastic wrote: “So you’re saying you don’t think the Democrats should actually strive to be better than Republicans…” Yes, I do. But having said that the old “when they go low, we go high” thing (which kind of takes on a different meaning in this whole context) isn’t all that different functionally from bringing the proverbial knife to the proverbial gunfight.
And regarding the seriousness of the transgression, I did not characterize it as minor but as relatively minor. You know, as compared to Moore or trump.
I think the strong negative reaction to misbehavior on the part of Republicans is based on the huge banner of Family Values! and Morality that they wave so vehemently. Seems like some kind of double standard going on there.
Franken is a politician and he is way too smart to wade in to this fraught and highly charged discussion with anything approaching a nuanced argument. Instead he issues a straight apology with no ambiguity. No surprise there.
In the scheme of things the photo of him groping her is pretty minor (assuming he never actually groped her and only posed the picture). Tasteless sure. Not funny either. But if we are to expect every man and woman who made some lewd gesture at some point in their lives to lose their job we will have a big problem in this country.
Good apology, and I hope this does not ruin his career. If there aren’t a bunch of other accusers popping out of the woodwork, I say let the apology stand (especially since the accuser accepts it) and move on. At worst, ask him to do some community service or something. Best if he volunteers to do it himself.
Honest question, why is it fair to do ascribe political motivations to Franken’s accuser but was so wrong to do this with Moore’s accuser at the beginning?
I think an ethics investigation is appropriate. If it finds no other incidents then I can see my way toward some minor punishment, but calls for resignation are too far. On the spectrum of recent notable incidents, I’d rank them about like this.
Weinstein
Cosby
Moore
Spacey
gap
Louis C. K.
big gap
Franken
Bush
I’m not a Democrat. This just doesn’t seem that bad to me. I guess we’ll see what the ethics investigation turns up though.
