# "Now and Then" - the last Beatles song being debuted {2023-11-02} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [November 2, 2023, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460 "2023-11-02T05:27:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/81 "2023-11-04T21:25:23Z")
I just listened to “Now and Then” and I’m solidly in the ‘meh’ category. The melody is just kinda blah, and the lyrics aren’t much better. I remember George saying something in the mid-1980s along the lines of “as long as John Lennon remains dead, there will be no Beatles reunion.” With George now dead as well, and the remaining two in their 80s, I’m happy to leave it like that. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/82 "2023-11-04T22:24:21Z")
I’m 52, this was the first time The Beatles released a new song in my lifetime. I wept. It sounds SO MUCH like The Beatles-- the recording, the production, the string arrangement, everything. Paul McCartney is absolutely a god in the works of writing, recording, producing, performing and mixing music. I only wish there were more unfinished tracks to go around for a full album. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/83 "2023-11-05T00:24:38Z")
You were around when they released “Real Love” and “Free As a Bird.” ---
**Author:** ![TeroSunbear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terosunbear/32/14748_2.png) [@TeroSunbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeroSunbear)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/84 "2023-11-05T01:09:26Z")
Well it was a dysfunctional band near the end. Though even Paul and John had one final song together (Ballad Of John and Yoko). Anyway, this system of sending the song from beyond the grave seems to be kind to all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/85 "2023-11-05T02:00:44Z")
the song grows on me … but … Paul did not really add anything relevant to the song (compared to the demo version, they extracted the voice out of) … so, in a way a bit of a let-down. It’s a good pop song with hooks etc… , reminds me a bit of “Across the universe” ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/86 "2023-11-05T07:41:15Z")
To be honest, I like the video more than the song itself. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/87 "2023-11-05T08:04:06Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I like the video more than the song Really? I dislike the video intensely–it’s a serious song, if nothing else, and all the shots of Lennon making goofy faces and doing his imitation of a spastic seem absurdly out of place and pretty tasteless. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/88 "2023-11-05T10:38:48Z")
Here’s an interesting somewhat-technical analysis/appreciation of how they did the AI stuff.[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PAkVIFUZPQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PAkVIFUZPQ) ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/89 "2023-11-05T18:07:32Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > I dislike the video intensely–it’s a serious song, if nothing else, and all the shots of Lennon making goofy faces and doing his imitation of a spastic seem absurdly out of place and pretty tasteless. Agreed. But I also dislike the song, John in his insipid “Yoko My Mommy” phase. I’m with whoever said Sirs Paul and Ringo should just record together as themselves. George must be spinning in his grave. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/90 "2023-11-06T03:05:37Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > Really? I dislike the video intensely–it’s a serious song, if nothing else, and all the shots of Lennon making goofy faces and doing his imitation of a spastic seem absurdly out of place and pretty tasteless. I was embarrassed by that part. It made no sense and made him look stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/91 "2023-11-06T05:03:27Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > Really? I dislike the video intensely–it’s a serious song, if nothing else, and all the shots of Lennon making goofy faces and doing his imitation of a spastic seem absurdly out of place and pretty tasteless Well, though the Lennon spastic dance footage was goofy and out of place, at least it seemed fun. The song itself was kind of mopey in my opinion. Would never have made it onto a Beatles album or even a Lennon solo album. And it didn’t for a reason. I agree Paul and Ringo should just come with something new. The Beatles ended 53 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/92 "2023-11-06T12:14:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I was embarrassed by that part. It made no sense and made him look stupid. It was so clearly outtake footage, it felt awkward seeing it in the video. We had footage of the other three making the song, including George in their previous attempt at this song, but none of John. I would have been fine with just archive footage of John that wasn’t silly. I really would not count any dug up material(Free As A bird, etc.) as a real Beatles song. If the three of them had hired Julian Lennon or someone else to replace John, then I could have accepted newly created material as Beatles. Look at Alice in Chains or Stone Temple Pilots. In Alice in Chains case, they lost a key member who was the lead singer, replaced him with a new guy who is fairly similar, and resumed. All three other members are the same guys as before. I accept the new albums as “real” Alice in Chains. I don’t think they ever considered reforming without John, but they really could have when George was alive. Now, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/93 "2023-11-06T12:36:41Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > Paul did not really add anything relevant to the song (compared to the demo version Actually, he (I assume it was mostly he) composed an entirely new bridge (middle eight). John’s original demo had a very different one that the final product omits altogether.\* This is how they often worked together in the 60s. Classic case: “We Can Work it Out” (verse/chorus Paul, bridge John). \*more here: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Xk88M4ABo_4/maxresdefault.jpg "Comparing John’s demo to the final Beatles track") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk88M4ABo_4) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/94 "2023-11-06T12:46:43Z")
It’s also why about 80% of John and Paul’s solo work is crap. They needed each other for constructive critiques and ideas — even Beatles songs that are nearly entirely composed by one or the other nearly always had some compositional improvement by the other (or occasionally George). ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/95 "2023-11-06T14:14:39Z")
It’s like George explained. Paul was perfectly happy to be very helpful in giving thoughts to your own songs and help get them recorded and fine-tuned just right. He put all the effort into George’s songs to make them sound great… …after they had recorded all the of the John, Paul, or John-Paul songs. The mentality was always those two get their songs finished and recorded first. Then, George or Ringo if any of their songs would be included. I don’t think George was all that mad about it, but there was a clear order of importance. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/96 "2023-11-06T15:15:03Z")
OK after a few more days, it’s slightly grown on me but really it would be if anything in the “album filler” tier. OTOH the video, for me, just doesn’t do it. It would be one thing to show retrospective clips of the departed as the track goes, but the insertions into more current scenes… they actually take me out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/97 "2023-11-06T16:03:36Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I don’t think George was all that mad about it, but there was a clear order of importance. I think John and Paul could take each other’s brutal feedback and use it to improve a song. That kind of criticism just made George defensive and a little insecure. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/98 "2023-11-06T16:07:42Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > but the insertions into more current scenes… they actually take me out of it. I was thinking the same thing. If they were set on using video magic to make it look like they were all singing the song together, it would have been better to base it on archival footage of all four circa 1977. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/99 "2023-11-06T16:11:24Z")
Just FYI, if anyone was wondering, Peter Jackson was the one who made the video. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460/100 "2023-11-06T16:20:34Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > If they were set on using video magic to make it look like they were all singing the song together, it would have been better to base it on archival footage of all four circa 1977. That I can agree with. The 43+ year age difference between them was a little jarring. As a side note, John’s been dead for three years longer than he was actually alive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-and-then-the-last-beatles-song-being-debuted-2023-11-02/992460.md?page=6)