# Now Arizona proposes letting states decide Presidential candidate eligibility **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063 "2010-04-23T01:48:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/1 "2010-04-23T01:48:05Z")
Arizona wants each states’ secretary of state\* to be able to deny a candidate a place on ballots in that state if they decide the candidate hasn’t presented proof of citizenship: [Arizona House OKs Bill Requiring Presidential Candidates to Provide Birth Certificate | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/22/arizona-house-oks-requiring-presidential-candidates-provide-birth-certificate/). Noticably absent from any report I’ve read is just what level of proof would be considered sufficient. The bill as proposed would apparently give each secretary of state the authority to decide whether or not the existing proof is sufficient. This smacks of state nullification, and almost certainly violates the Fourteenth Amendment by denying citizens the right to vote for a candidate in a federal election. This is… stupid. \*no, not the **federal** secretary of state; the secretary of state of _each state government_. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/2 "2010-04-23T02:43:07Z")
This is not news. States are free to use any system they want to populate their ballots and run their elections. They may appoint their Electors in any manner they choose, as long as they don’t run afoul of constitutional rights, such as the right of women to vote (if they choose to have popular elections at all), or the ban on poll taxes. All that matters in the end, of course, is the vote of the Electoral College, and the certification of same by Congress. And that has and always been the under exclusive purview of the federal government. A candidate need only convince Congress that he meets the requirements for candidacy, and the Electors to vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/3 "2010-04-23T03:07:32Z")
As friedo said, most states already have some system for determining who’s on the ballot. Hundreds of people may be attempting to run for President in the same election. A proof of citizenship test is no big deal. It probably would have helped Obama’s campaign in 2008. Rumors are hard to fight but an actual legal standard would have officially confirmed that he is a natural-born citizen. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/4 "2010-04-23T03:12:02Z")
Everybody who thinks that Obama is not a US citizen, US born, that this might possibly be a good idea, or that it isn’t about racism are screaming idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/5 "2010-04-23T03:35:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As friedo said, most states already have some system for determining who’s on the ballot. Hundreds of people may be attempting to run for President in the same election. > > A proof of citizenship test is no big deal. It probably would have helped Obama’s campaign in 2008. Rumors are hard to fight but an actual legal standard would have officially confirmed that he is a natural-born citizen. Except that Obama showed his birth certificate, the same exact one he would show to the Arizona Secretary of State (assuming the law doesn’t get thrown out.) and there are still idiots screaming about him not being born in the US. It isn’t a matter of showing proof. There is no amount of proof that he can show most birthers, they would just claim it was faked or not what they meant. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/6 "2010-04-23T03:44:08Z")
Presumably this is the 26th time Arizona has proposed this, since the next election cycle will mark the 26th in which Arizonans have been able to vote? It would be too much of a coincidence if this was the first time, and _also_ the first time one of _those people_ was running for reelection. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/7 "2010-04-23T03:51:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Except that Obama showed his birth certificate, the same exact one he would show to the Arizona Secretary of State (assuming the law doesn’t get thrown out.) and there are still idiots screaming about him not being born in the US. It isn’t a matter of showing proof. There is no amount of proof that he can show most birthers, they would just claim it was faked or not what they meant. I disagree. If Obama had a chance to face the accusation squarely in court he would win. If fifty different secretaries of state, Democrats and Republican, all stated that Barack Hussein Obama has produced valid evidence that he is a natural-born American citizen, then it would have demolished the birther movement. Sure there would be a few diehards who would never accept the truth. But the birthers would be like the [people](http://educate-yourself.org/cn/baracksoetorofamilyphoto16sep08.shtml) who believe Barack Obama is a lizard man from outer space - so far out on the fringe they don’t matter anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/8 "2010-04-23T03:53:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I disagree. If Obama had a chance to face the accusation squarely in court he would win. If fifty different secretaries of state, Democrats and Republican, all stated that Barack Hussein Obama has produced valid evidence that he is a natural-born American citizen, then it would have demolished the birther movement. > > Sure there would be a few diehards who would never accept the truth. But the birthers would be like the [people](http://educate-yourself.org/cn/baracksoetorofamilyphoto16sep08.shtml) who believe Barack Obama is a lizard man from outer space - so far out on the fringe they don’t matter anymore. Your optimism is adorable. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/9 "2010-04-23T04:03:43Z")
Adorable, but as nutty as a cashew brittle. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/10 "2010-04-23T04:13:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > …Barack Obama is a lizard man… Well, of course we suspected _that_. But I was intrigued to learn that George Bush Sr. is, as well! > [@](#): > > I first discovered these etheric bleed-through images when I was working on a photo of George Bush Sr., another human/reptilian hybrid masquerading as a human being, standing on the deck of a US aircraft carrier on September 1, 1944 posing with two other Navy airmen. Now that I think about it, it does make sense. Thanks for the tip! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/11 "2010-04-23T04:20:39Z")
Soooo - has anyone seen Sarah Palin’s birth certificate? Or Mitt Romney’s, Tim Pawlenty’s, Mike Huckabee’s, Bobby Jindal’s … No, not _that_ birth certificate, the other, double secret one. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/12 "2010-04-23T04:20:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I disagree. If Obama had a chance to face the accusation squarely in court he would win. If fifty different secretaries of state, Democrats and Republican, all stated that Barack Hussein Obama has produced valid evidence that he is a natural-born American citizen, then it would have demolished the birther movement. > > Sure there would be a few diehards who would never accept the truth. But the birthers would be like the [people](http://educate-yourself.org/cn/baracksoetorofamilyphoto16sep08.shtml) who believe Barack Obama is a lizard man from outer space - so far out on the fringe they don’t matter anymore. Except he has shown valid evidence that he was born in the USA. You can still see pictures of it online. It has been looked at by news organizations, certified by the Republican governor and the Secretary of State of Hawaii, and was good enough for the Federal government for Obama to get a passport. And none of that is good enough. And there is no way it can be. The majority of birthers are either already out there with the lizard believers or are just racist, looking for any reason they can to declare him illegitimate. > [@Bosstone](#): > > Your optimism is adorable. Isn’t all optimism adorable? Like a little puppy with big eyes, looking up at you. Until it gets ran over by the freight train of reality. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/13 "2010-04-23T04:23:36Z")
> [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > Soooo - has anyone seen Sarah Palin’s birth certificate? Or Mitt Romney’s, Tim Pawlenty’s, Mike Huckabee’s, Bobby Jindal’s … John McCain’s? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/14 "2010-04-23T06:58:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Your optimism is adorable. > [@](#): > > Adorable, but as nutty as a cashew brittle. > [@](#): > > Isn’t all optimism adorable? Like a little puppy with big eyes, looking up at you. Until it gets ran over by the freight train of reality. Heck, I’m as cute as a panda on a tricycle. But I assume you guys are offering condenscension in lieu of the rebuttal you are unable to produce. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/15 "2010-04-23T07:05:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I disagree. If Obama had a chance to face the accusation squarely in court he would win. Doesn’t a president have more important things to do than go to court to resolve bullshit? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/16 "2010-04-23T07:10:56Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Doesn’t a president have more important things to do than go to court to resolve bullshit? [animal house] _cough_ _cough_ _cough_ BLOWJOB! _cough_ _cough_ _cough_ [/ah] ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/17 "2010-04-23T07:18:41Z")
Heck, even that would be a better use of his time. Once he starts jumping through hoops, it’ll never end. Anyone determined to believe chicanery will just claim each level of authority who supports the president is in on it. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/18 "2010-04-23T11:45:38Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > John McCain’s? Alas, those records were lost when the British burned Washington DC… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/19 "2010-04-23T12:39:59Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > This smacks of state nullification, and almost certainly violates the Fourteenth Amendment by denying citizens the right to vote for a candidate in a federal election. Where does the Fourteenth Amendment guarantee citizens the right to vote for a candidiate in a federal election? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063/20 "2010-04-23T12:44:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Where does the Fourteenth Amendment guarantee citizens the right to vote for a candidiate in a federal election? Good point. It probably doesn’t, at least textually. In the event that this bill proceeds successfully through the AZ senate, and is signed into law by the governor, do you anticipate it being successfully challenged? If so, what do you think would be the prevailing argument against it? Do you, personally, feel that this is a wise action for the Arizona legislature to take? Were you an Arizona state legislator, would you support this bill? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-arizona-proposes-letting-states-decide-presidential-candidate-eligibility/537063.md?page=2)