# Now Cuba "may have" WMD - I can't make this shit up folks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516 "2004-09-07T18:19:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/21 "2004-09-07T20:12:35Z")
> [@Avenger](#): > > I’m confused. > > > [@](#): > > > > The bigger question is, who is spoon feeding this news to Fox? Why are they the only ones with a contemporary article about old info like this? > > As far as I can see the article is dated 2002. Where do you get the idea that it is a contemporary article? Please read my last post. The “they” in that sentence is referring to Fox news. I went to the AP’s website and did a search for the [Cuba](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/external/search.customwire.ap.org/wireCoreTool/Search?query=cuba) article but found none even relating to it over the last 7 days. Is that typical of the AP not to list all of their articles? ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/22 "2004-09-07T20:16:24Z")
> [@Avenger](#): > > I’m confused. > > As far as I can see the article is dated 2002. Where do you get the idea that it is a contemporary article? Oh, man! You totally missed the first rule of the Pit. Bush is the anti-Christ and you must never question that fact. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/23 "2004-09-07T20:17:44Z")
Oh. Never-the-fuck-mind. I didn’t notice that the article in the OP was dated: > [@](#): > > Monday, May 06, 2002 Heh, that’ll teach me for taking the “now” for granted that the title of the thread implied. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/24 "2004-09-07T20:22:38Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > What sort of corroboration? Is AP an untrustworthy source? If CNN published the wire, would it then be corroborated? For my money, something that intelligent members of both sides can respect as honest and full details (inasmuch as is possible, of course). For some people, nothing Fox News publishes can ever be believed, and the same goes for any other news establishment. I still would want something from multiple sources with more than just the same 200 words on the matter, or something. However, that’s just me not wanting to be fooled twice on the same matter. When it comes to something as important as WMDs, I want multiple sources if for no other reason than I can point to them and say “Look. It ain’t just me.” My problem, IOW, **duffer** , is that so far I find nothing on CNN, one article (from two years ago) has been found on ABC, nothing on the BBC, [Google](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=Cuba+WMD&btnG=Google+Search) turns up lots of sources I’ve never heard of (I welcome anyone who wants to tell me or anyone else why they’re reliable), etc. We thought we had all the evidence anyone could ever want on Iraq WMDs and that turned out, as I said, oh so well. The amount found WRT Iraq WMDs, compared to what’s turning up online (I don’t have the strongest desire to walk to the library in the rain right now. If it’s that important I’ll have a look at Infotrack or something. Maybe someone can look through LexisNexus) on Cuba’s WMDs is, shall we say, lackluster at best. IMHO, anyway. If someone else can turn up something that’s reliable and respectable, I’m all ears. I’m also not saying it’s a false story, but thanks for attempting to construct an argument for me:) What I said was this: > [@me](#): > > …that there might not be as much to this story as some others would say, given the unholy hell raised both here and elsewhere WRT WMDs. If an honest and fair reading of that part of my post produced in you the belief that I was claiming the story was false, I suggest you re-read it. I don’t see anywhere that I even implied it was false. Might it be mistaken? I think so. The recent pitting of the AP article claiming that the crowd at a Bush gathering booed when they heard news about Clinton shows that not everything the AP puts out is from the mouth of God, after all. You also conveniently neglected to include in your thought process this: > [@me](#): > > However, it’s early yet (in terms of folks here trying to find more evidence), so the window of opportunity is still very much open, ISTM. IOW, I’m unconvinced and willing to be shown the error of my ways:) ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/25 "2004-09-07T20:23:48Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I think it’s past weak and into the negative. I’m beginning to wonder whether Bush really is more dangerous than these leftist loons. R_iiiiii_ght. Because, you know, “these leftist loons” have the bully pulpit and influence of the President. Gotta watch out for those message board posters, they can do so much more damage than the President. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/26 "2004-09-07T20:35:28Z")
Um, nobody has noted the real reason behind this cry of “wolf.” Florida is expected to be as crucial this election as it was last election. And the administration’s harsh policies on Cuban refugees–they’ve even repatriated refugees whom they new would be jailed for fleeing; they just extracted a promis that they wouldn’t be executed–that there’s some suggestion they’ve lost a lot of the Cuban-American base in that state. Cuban Americans, in general, want the US to take a harder line on Cuba: they want Castro _OUT_, so they can rejoin their families, etc. Being aggressive toward refugees, which equals being soft on Cuba, has alienated a lot of Florida voters. This latest is just a blatant, and cynical, and no doubt hollow, campaign promise to Cuban Floridians. ---
**Author:** ![MrTuffPaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MrTuffPaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrTuffPaws)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/27 "2004-09-07T20:39:25Z")
From here: [http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040907.wxrymcuba07/BNStory/Business/](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040907.wxrymcuba07/BNStory/Business/) > [@](#): > > **Cuban drug to make debut in U.S.** > > You still can’t buy a good Cuban cigar in the United States, but an apparent policy shift in Washington is paving the way for the arrival of experimental cancer treatments from the outcast island country. Looks like that WMD research is finally paying off. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/28 "2004-09-07T20:40:37Z")
[QUOTE=iampunha] My problem, IOW, **duffer** , is that so far I find nothing on CNN, one article (from two years ago) has been found on ABC, nothing on the BBC, [QUOTE] So the best you could find was a 2 year old article? I’m not getting into a pissing contest with you, but based on posting history I can safely assume you hate Fox News? Or did they report this last night? (I have no cable thanks to Incontinent Communications) _see Pit if you want the full story_ Either way, it’s an AP story and Fox News is getting hammered for it. The shrill vitriol towards a single network is rather telling. Not necessarily from you **iam** , but you know damn well you’ve gotten on that bandwagon. When the left-wing radicals pounce on the AP for this, I’ll listen. But dragging out the tired-ass “Fox News Is Evil” rant is, quite frankly, a bore. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/29 "2004-09-07T20:45:10Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,52049,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,52049,00.html) > > At least Cuba is close, and should be pretty easy to squash. :rolleyes: > > Is it even _possible_ to cry wolf any harder then we’ve been doing? Why are you ranting about this? It has long been suspected that Cuba has WMD. Don’cha remember that they _did_ have quite a few a number of decades back. Why would it be any shock that they had some, or were developing some now? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/30 "2004-09-07T20:53:58Z")
[QUOTE=duffer] [QUOTE=iampunha] My problem, IOW, **duffer** , is that so far I find nothing on CNN, one article (from two years ago) has been found on ABC, nothing on the BBC, > [@](#): > > So the best you could find was a 2 year old article? I’m not getting into a pissing contest with you, but based on posting history I can safely assume you hate Fox News? Or did they report this last night? (I have no cable thanks to Incontinent Communications) _see Pit if you want the full story_ > > Either way, it’s an AP story and Fox News is getting hammered for it. The shrill vitriol towards a single network is rather telling. Not necessarily from you **iam** , but you know damn well you’ve gotten on that bandwagon. > > When the left-wing radicals pounce on the AP for this, I’ll listen. But dragging out the tired-ass “Fox News Is Evil” rant is, quite frankly, a bore. Duffer, don’t be so ignorant. The AP publishes, what, hundreds of stories every day. Each news “retailer,” like Fox, chooses which of those stories they will run, and which are too stupid or unimportant to run. If Fox chooses to trumpet this story, then they are indeed the ones to be criticized. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/31 "2004-09-07T20:57:50Z")
Another one of the unintended consequences of the embargo against Cuba. They would never have developed their biotechology capability to this extent if they could buy American pharmaceuticals on the open market. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/32 "2004-09-07T20:58:39Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > So the best you could find was a 2 year old article? _I_ haven’t been able to find shit, other than [netforcuba.org](http://netforcuba.org), [counterpunch.org](http://counterpunch.org), and similarly world-respected sources. > [@](#): > > I’m not getting into a pissing contest with you, but based on posting history I can safely assume you hate Fox News? Or did they report this last night? (I have no cable thanks to Incontinent Communications) _see Pit if you want the full story_ Read and responded to it. I try, though I fail more often than I’d like, not to accept one single source for something important like this. One person, organization, whatever, can be wrong. I would no more accept the individual ABC article than I accept the Fox News article as being Ultimate Truth. Multiple sources tends (though it does not always succeed in doing so) to eliminate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. > [@](#): > > Either way, it’s an AP story and Fox News is getting hammered for it. The shrill vitriol towards a single network is rather telling. Not necessarily from you **iam** , but you know damn well you’ve gotten on that bandwagon. Oh, thanks so much for the guilt by association. “You’ve done this before, so let me indirectly rag on you.” Let’s never mind any bias you might have;) > [@](#): > > When the left-wing radicals pounce on the AP for this, I’ll listen. But dragging out the tired-ass “Fox News Is Evil” rant is, quite frankly, a bore. What’s a bore as well, to me, is folks creating arguments on others’ behalves (unless you meant to specifically direct this portion of your post to someone else), then complaining about them. I’ll certainly blast Fox for doing stupid things, as I’d blast other people as well (unless someone else has already covered that - too many “me too” posts spoil the broth). I don’t think I’ve blasted them here For Being Fox, or even at all, unless you consider “I’d like to see another article on this from someone else” to be unnecessarily negative, in which case I’ll return your “your friends do this too” serve and return with milroyj’s recent pit thread, in which he didn’t even manage to pit the person who brought the issue up (that’d be Guin). Just as applicable, no?🙂 ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/33 "2004-09-07T21:04:37Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Duffer, don’t be so ignorant. The AP publishes, what, hundreds of stories every day. Each news “retailer,” like Fox, chooses which of those stories they will run, and which are too stupid or unimportant to run. If Fox chooses to trumpet this story, then they are indeed the ones to be criticized. **Lissener,** you may be making the same mistake I was by thinking that the link in the OP was actually current. It’s not. It’s from May 6th, 2002. Which is the same day that [CNN ran the story](http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/americas/05/06/cuba.weapons/?related) as well. I really have to agree that this is some unfair Fox-bashing (dagnabbit). ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/34 "2004-09-07T21:09:44Z")
I hate when I submit too soon. Google **May 6 2002 Cuba Biological Weapons** and you’ll see that it wasn’t just reported by Foxnews.: [XBS](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/11/attack/printable508722.shtml) [NewsMax](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/5/5/215929.shtml) [Even the Democratic Senator Bob Graham from Florida](http://graham.senate.gov/pr052002.html) and a lot more… ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/35 "2004-09-07T21:10:59Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > [XBS](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/11/attack/printable508722.shtml) **C** BS that is… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/36 "2004-09-07T21:24:25Z")
John Bolton on March 30, 2004: > [@](#): > > The Bush administration has said repeatedly that we are concerned that Cuba is developing a limited biological weapons effort, and called on Fidel Castro to cease his BW aspirations and support of terrorism. Existing intelligence reporting is problematic, and the Intelligence Community’s ability to determine the scope, nature, and effectiveness of any Cuban BW program has been hampered by reporting from sources of questionable access, reliability, and motivation. [http://usinfo.state.gov/is/Archive/2004/Apr/06-107979.html](http://usinfo.state.gov/is/Archive/2004/Apr/06-107979.html) ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/37 "2004-09-07T21:26:18Z")
Upon reflection, **duffer** , I think we misunderstand each other. The Fox News article wasn’t found by me. It was found, and posted, by **World Eater**. What ire you have directed at me is misplaced, I think, though I wouldn’t direct it at **WE** either. Simply-put, 'twasn’t my pitting. I’m curious as to how he found it … one doesn’t go looking for articles about Cuban WMDs every day, now:) I do wonder, though, why this wasn’t emphasized in the news at the time. I have my own conjecture, of course: Iraqi conflict was heavily underway, and news that Cuba might have WMD would have unpleasantly surprised many Americans and caused them to think, rightly or wrongly, that Bush was losing control. There’s also the cynical response that Cuba doesn’t have a precious natural resource, unlike Iraq, but that’s probably a bit much tinfoil hattery. A few things in Sen. Graham’s words caught my eye: “‘For four decades Cuba has maintained a well-developed and sophisticated biomedical industry, supported until 1990 by the Soviet Union.” Who was supporting it from 1990 on? “Analysts and Cuban defectors have long cast suspicion on the activities conducted in these biomedical facilities.” Suspicion doesn’t equal proof. I wonder why we didn’t go after Syria, Libya or Cuba if they represented such a threat to us, as estimated by Bolton. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/38 "2004-09-07T21:29:03Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Well, since it’s an Associated Press story it must be wrong! Where is the outrage against the AP for this story being spread? :dubious: > > These arguments are getting pretty damn weak. The AP is a wire service with a huge staff of diverse peoploids. Yes, the AP is generally reliable. Yes, they occasionally run incorrect or intentionally silly stories. Whether or not subscribers actually print them reflects the editorial judgement of the subscribing organization. Of course, my original remark was based on the assumption that the story was current and that FoxNews was the only outlet that gave it time. This was determined by searching for phrases in the article using Google’s news aggregate service. Turns out that this was misleading for two reasons: One, it’s not a current article, and two, and (most importantly) it turns out that it’s not an AP article after all. You’ll note the FoxNews credit: “The Associated Press _contributed_ to this report.” ) [The AP story that is source for the article](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/11/attack/main508722.shtml) reads somewhat differently: > [@](#): > > The Bush administration said Monday it believes Cuba “has at least a limited offensive biological warfare” program… Some other interesting rewrites: > [@AP](#): > > His remarks were prepared for delivery to the Heritage Foundation, a conservative research group. > [@FOXNews](#): > > “Analysts and Cuban defectors have long cast suspicion on the activities conducted in these biomedical facilities,” Bolton, the United States’ chief non-proliferation official, told audience members Monday at Heritage Foundation, a Washington think tank. > [@AP](#): > > He noted an official U.S. government report in 1998 concluded that Cuba did not represent a significant military threat to the United States or the region. > Bolton said the Clinton administration may have overlooked Cuba as a potential threat because of the influence of what he called the country’s aggressive intelligence operations in the United States. He said this included recruiting the Defense Intelligence Agency’s senior Cuba analyst, Ana Belen Montes, to spy for Cuba. > “Montes not only had a hand in drafting the 1998 Cuba report but also passed some of our most sensitive information about Cuba back to Havana,” he said. > [@FOXNews](#): > > Boltonsaid the country’s potential terrorist threat may have been overlooked because it was not labeled a military threat during the Clinton administration though it was known to conduct widespread and aggressive intelligence operations in the United States. The most notable activity was its recruitment of the Defense Intelligence Agency’s senior Cuba analyst, Ana Belen Montes, to spy for Cuba. **Montes drafted a 1998 report that said Cuba is not a threat.** > “Montes not only had a hand in drafting the 1998 Cuba report but also passed some of our most sensitive information about Cuba back to Havana,” he said. Interesting how FOXNews spins it. I can forgive most of the subtle jiggery-pokery, but introducing something that is patently false (ie; a convicted spy is the sole author of [_The Cuban Threat to U.S. National Security_](http://www.fas.org/irp/dia/product/980507-dia-cubarpt.htm)) into an article, and still running it under the AP byline? That’s, uh, actionable, isn’t it? Isn’t that why they include that “This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed” at the bottom? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/39 "2004-09-07T21:32:25Z")
meh…I’m sure the story will be forgoten in a day or two until someone puts it in their “Big List of Censored News Stories that Never Went Anywhere Because Nothing Happened of 2004” list. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516/40 "2004-09-07T21:42:48Z")
I don’t think some people yet realize that this is a two year old story. So, for the benefit of those people: It’s a two year old story. The story was reported by other sources, as **stpauler** has shown. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-cuba-may-have-wmd-i-cant-make-this-shit-up-folks/263516.md?page=3)