# Now is not the time to come together as Americans **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 11, 2016, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476 "2016-11-11T07:31:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/141 "2016-11-15T14:16:49Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Academics slandering the right. What a novel concept. I don’t have time to read it right now. Could you tell me the points you disagree with? Since, of course, you’ve read the whole thng? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/142 "2016-11-15T14:25:17Z")
Lips got tired. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/143 "2016-11-15T14:27:33Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I don’t have time to read it right now. Could you tell me the points you disagree with? Since, of course, you’ve read the whole thng? Didn’t read it, same as I suspect you wouldn’t pay much heed to a Breitbart link. And note, I admitted in this thread that conservatives are servile. But so are liberals, which is the point. They bow before multiculturalism, redistributive taxation and progressive groupthink. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/144 "2016-11-15T14:31:52Z")
I pay heed to _Blightbart_! Shock, horror, and dismay are “heed”! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/145 "2016-11-15T14:34:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You can see right there what all that book-learnin’ will do for you! Yeah, Right after the Ethiopian Mooslum and Crooked Hillary took all my bullets and stuck me in a FEMA death camp, they went and put my name on the death panel list. But Trump, all his alt right racist pals, and his buddy Putin will save us from all the Mexicans, Mooslums, and Libruls running rampant in our streets. :smack: What group is targeted next, after those groups are gone ----\> There’s always another. Oh yeah. They take the leash off Pence and he goes after gays and uppity wimmenfolk who want a bit of control over their own body. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/146 "2016-11-15T14:37:56Z")
Enjoy your echo chamber guys. It’s served you well so far. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/147 "2016-11-15T14:48:14Z")
I’ve had a quick scan. “Slander” (or more accurately “libel”) is a rather strong interpretation for a paper that isn’t saying much that would surprise either group. If you’ve got an objection to the excerpt, it would have been more constructive to address it than the blind handwaving. As for actual criticism: as I said I scanned it quickly but didn’t really see much in the way of explanation of what they mean by “liberal” and “conservative”. I’m suspicious they have defined the groups by the characteristics - “liberals” are A, B and C, while “conservative” are X, Y and Z, which run into the danger of presenting circular arguments (“people who have these traits have these traits”). It’s also an overly Manichaean argument, with not much discussion of the space between the two poles they present. I’m guessing these are graduate students from the style. Also note that the article is from 2009 FWIW. I rate it a “meh”. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/148 "2016-11-15T18:22:19Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > **madmonk** , clearly the answer is to pretend that bigoted man is an aberration, an outlier, or better yet, a poor, misunderstood, and unfairly maligned victim of the post-Industrial Age economy. The election has helped this downtrodden fellow finally find his voice, you see, and he simply wants to be heard and listened to and empathized with. As losers in this bloody war, Dems must–must, I say–hold this gentleman’s hand and figure out what he wants…and then market a message that appeals to these wants. It’s really the only way. > > The black guy that he insulted? Sucks to be him, I know. But he needs to put aside his desire for respect and dignity and start considering himself collateral damage in the Dem’s War to Win Elections. His feelings are optional at this point, as they pretty much have always been when white votes are on the line. If poor disaffected Trump supporters are going to be heard and listened to and understood, we can’t have black people calling them racist when they act like racists. Because that’s not nice and liberals must be nice at all costs. > > Now, I can hear your retort already. “The election was lost because people like that black guy didn’t turn out as anticipated. If we ignore how he’s been dissed and try to act like his wants and needs are of lesser importance than the guy abusing him, aren’t we setting ourselves up for another upset in 2020 when he stays home again come Super Tuesday?” And to that I say, you have a good point. And yet, against all common sense and sanity, I still say we should fixate on rural conservatives. If our electoral college setup tells us anything, it’s that their lives matter more than anyone else’s. BLM, notwithstanding. Or, to put it another way, for better or worse, Democracy will only ever give us the will of the majority, and writing off half the electorate as evil fucks and telling them so makes chances of achieving your political goals pretty slim. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/149 "2016-11-15T19:23:01Z")
> [@junior18](#): > > Trump was never called a racist, homo-phobe, or whatever you idiots want to call him until he ran against your beloved criminal Hillary. Actually, he was taken to court many years ago for his explicit racist actions. But what am I thinking- this is a fact, and I know that you are pretty much immune to facts if they don’t agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/150 "2016-11-15T19:33:25Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Or, to put it another way, for better or worse, Democracy will only ever give us the will of the majority, and writing off half the electorate as evil fucks and telling them so makes chances of achieving your political goals pretty slim. No one is talking about writing off half the electorate or ignoring the will of the majority. As I hope you know, a majority of voters voted against Trump. What I am in favor of is rejecting people that are using the election results to carry out their white supremacist fantasies. I’m also in favor of writing off people who would prefer to vote against than their own economic interests if it means symbolically getting back at brown and black people. If you’re conflating that with me saying I’m rejecting half the electorate, that’s on you not me. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/151 "2016-11-15T20:06:30Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > No one is talking about writing off half the electorate or ignoring the will of the majority. As I hope you know, a majority of voters voted against Trump. > > What I am in favor of is rejecting people that are using the election results to carry out their white supremacist fantasies. I’m also in favor of writing off people who would prefer to vote against than their own economic interests if it means symbolically getting back at brown and black people. If you’re conflating that with me saying I’m rejecting half the electorate, that’s on you not me. I should avoid all discussions of politics that involve sarcasm, as I clearly have a challenge reading for complete comprehension the first time around in those circumstances. My apologies for that. However, even appreciating the tongue-in-cheek quality of your original post, you hit accidentally upon a fundamental truth about the outcome. 1/2 of the voting electorate cast a ballot in support of Trump for president (one can point out that it was less than half, but with a less than 1% difference, I think calling it 1/2 is fair). The only way to change governance in our Democracy is for a majority of voters to vote for that change. You can couch it in ‘bloody war’ metaphors, but the fact is that yes, if you (and I) want a majority to vote for a Democrat in 4 years, or at least for someone who isn’t quite as off the rails as Trump seems to be in my eyes, then let’s get out there and convince those people that Team Democrat is a team that they want to be on. And spitting in their faces is unlikely to have the desired effect. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/152 "2016-11-15T20:33:16Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > …let’s get out there and convince those people that Team Democrat is a team that they want to be on. And spitting in their faces is unlikely to have the desired effect. The ones who go GOP because of that tasty xenophobia and racism aren’t exactly the low hanging fruit in that effort. And we are not, as a party, “spitting in their faces.” We are insisting on equal treatment and human rights, and we should continue to do that. Yes, we need to distinguish between the “Tastes Great!” racists and the “Less Filling!” fiscal conservatives, and convince the latter group where their interests are better filled. But if we ever start _needing_ the bigots, then we need to disappear as a party. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/153 "2016-11-15T20:58:41Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > The ones who go GOP because of that tasty xenophobia and racism aren’t exactly the low hanging fruit in that effort. And we are not, as a party, “spitting in their faces.” We are insisting on equal treatment and human rights, and we should continue to do that. > > Yes, we need to distinguish between the “Tastes Great!” racists and the “Less Filling!” fiscal conservatives, and convince the latter group where their interests are better filled. But if we ever start _needing_ the bigots, then we need to disappear as a party. Sure. What’s the point of ‘winning’ if it means being deplorable. 😉 However, there is a narrative exemplified by the OP of this thread that says that all Trump supporters are intentional and hateful racists and misogynists first and foremost. I just don’t think that 1/2 the country is as nasty as many of my fellow Dems are insisting that it is. And, I think that people for whom racial justice does not rise to a priority over other issues that affect them more personally are still ok people. And, these are, I believe, most of the Trump voters, and are people who we Dems should be working on figuring out how to talk to about a rising tide lifting all boats, and so on and so forth. It’s not the people who voted _against_ blacks, gays, and women who we need to work at winning over. It’s the people who voted _for_ their own self-interest (as accurate or inaccurate as their assessments may have been) who are possible allies in our efforts, and whom are being written off by folks like the OP as scum. The short of it is that if we stay focused on painting with a broad brush so that no racist goes un-accused, then the collateral damage is going to be what ultimately might keep us away from political leadership in the short term, and what prevents true cultural/social change in the long term. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/154 "2016-11-15T21:57:38Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Sorry, where is the call for armed revolution? It’s not in your quotes. Gee… Which side is it that loves to yammer on and on about Second Amendment Solutions??? Which side is it that loves to jabber about “the blood of tyrants” or is it “patriots”, or SOMEBODY’s blood all the time??? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/155 "2016-11-15T22:00:51Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Actually, he was taken to court many years ago for his explicit racist actions. But what am I thinking- this is a fact, and I know that you are pretty much immune to facts if they don’t agree with you. The case was “settled”. In short, he was guilty as hell and agreed to a settlement, to avoid paying more. Now it gets played instead as a stunning victory and proof of innocence. No lie is too big or too small. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/156 "2016-11-15T22:17:56Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Can you all stop with this moronic “now’s the time to pull together as Americans nonsense? That’s not happening. When you voted for Trump you specifically voted against an America where we all pull together. You voted for racism and divisiveness. Sigh. No. We didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/157 "2016-11-15T22:24:20Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Sure. What’s the point of ‘winning’ if it means being deplorable. 😉 > > However, there is a narrative exemplified by the OP of this thread that says that all Trump supporters are intentional and hateful racists and misogynists first and foremost. > > I just don’t think that 1/2 the country is as nasty as many of my fellow Dems are insisting that it is. And, I think that people for whom racial justice does not rise to a priority over other issues that affect them more personally are still ok people. And, these are, I believe, most of the Trump voters, and are people who we Dems should be working on figuring out how to talk to about a rising tide lifting all boats, and so on and so forth. I more agree than disagree. But it’s sort of like being fined for negligent workplace safety conditions; you “knew or should have known” the conditions were likely to cause a work injury even if you never went out in your shop and looked around. In this case, Trump voters knew or should have known the danger of putting a man like that in the White House. You can still be an ok person and operate in willful ignorance (up to a point). Curing that sort of thing always has to involve ownership of consequences, though. On the other hand, we don’t have to go the full Truth and Reconciliation route. We wouldn’t really be able to do that without a _yooge_ Trumpian catastrophe that incontrovertibly hurts these people anyway, and I’m praying that doesn’t happen. Showing them the alternatives clearly should get a bare majority of voters. It won’t change the electorate in a substantial way, and it must be maintained as a major full force effort for roughly the remaining lifetime of the republic, but at least it’s a way that we could start getting people into government who’d like to _govern_. ---
**Author:** ![TwiSpark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TwiSpark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwiSpark)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/158 "2016-11-15T22:35:00Z")
No, just no. You’ll end up with a second term if you keep up this divisive shit where you act like about 50% of the population are scumbags. Non-racist people voted for Trump. I have a friend who would’ve done, if he were technically able and no, he is definitely not racist no matter how hard you try and assert that he is (it’s mostly just preferring Trump over Clinton very slightly, and fear over Russia). Lots of people’s families did. They’re not all evil fascist mini-Hitlers, they’re human beings with hopes, dreams and concerns. It’s time to treat them that way. Addition: There’s also the argument that Trump is a businessman, i.e. Salesman++. I think a lot of people knew and expected him to exaggerate and bullshit his way along. If you think it’s something you can change people’s minds on, or ‘educate’ them about then to borrow a rant from the good Doctor: SIT DOWN AND TALK!! Dismissing people as a bunch of horrible racists and screaming at them is counter-productive to getting them to listen and potentially change their minds, I really believe that. Hysterical shouting and name-calling is a sure sign that someone does not have a good argument. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/159 "2016-11-15T22:58:39Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I just don’t think that 1/2 the country is as nasty as many of my fellow Dems are insisting that it is. They don’t have to be “nasty” to be too unreachable to be a worthwhile outreach investment. If we were talking about regular people who just happened to vote Republican, perhaps my opinion would be different. But I do see Trump voters as being on whole other level of partisanship, one that is going to be difficult to break through without becoming Republican Lite. The Dems have as much chance of winning these hearts and minds as the GOP has of winning over African Americans. This isn’t defeatism talking; it’s realism. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476/160 "2016-11-15T23:06:45Z")
That’s not to say I think all Trump voters are too partisan to be reached. Chatting one-on-one with could lead to a few opened minds. But one-on-one chats aren’t feasible when we’re talking about millions of people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-is-not-the-time-to-come-together-as-americans/771476.md?page=9)