# Now public health and safety is being debated about, just as if its a political belief? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 4, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830 "2015-02-04T19:18:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/41 "2015-02-04T22:05:46Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Hmm. Looks like monkey shit. > > Smells like monkey shit. > > Definitely in a bucket. > > Gonna pass on tasting it, I think, and just treat it as I would monkey shit. What is all this talk of monkey shit? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/42 "2015-02-04T22:09:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > For instance: > > [Glenn Beck compares anti-vaxxers with Galileo.](http://www.salon.com/2015/02/04/glen_beck_compares_anti_vaxxers_with_galileo_nobody_that_hasnt_done_their_homework_says_no_to_vaccines/) I didn’t read it. Do we get to throw anti-vaxxers off the Tower of Pisa? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/43 "2015-02-04T22:12:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “She Called Out Of Work With A Belly Ache And\*\* Wound Up With\*\* The Surprise Of Her Life!” > > You don’t see “wound up with”? She “wound up with” a surprise. The surprise was caused by the belly ache that had her calling out of work. That the belly ache itself was caused by something unexpected is irrelevant to that chain of causation. ---
**Author:** ![WPA-Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WPA-Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WPA-Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/44 "2015-02-04T22:29:13Z")
“Bottom line: Being antivax is the crazy that knows no political/ideologic boundaries. It afflicts both the Left and Right, Democrats and Republicans.” True that. Stupid has no boundaries. However, there is stupid, and then there is politics. Do politicians not realize that everything they have said comes back to haunt them: “Governors ultimately have the responsibility to protect the public health and public safety,” Christie said. “The members of the American public believe it is common sense, and we are not moving an inch. Our policy hasn’t changed and our policy will not change. I will not submit to any political pressure in doing anything less than I believe is necessary,” he said. He was not referring to vaccinating children, but forcing a quarantine on a healthcare worker who had returned from Africa that showed no symptoms. Christie was unrepentant even though his quarantine order made no sense since the public was never at risk. The rationale for quarantine Christie invoked was eventually deemed illegal by a judge in Maine because it did not rest on scientific evidence. So am I to gather that if you are a politician, you speak from your ass and hope that it is the right answer for that situation? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/45 "2015-02-04T22:51:05Z")
> [@WPA-Guy](#): > > So am I to gather that if you are a politician, you speak from your ass and hope that it is the right answer for that situation? Nah, you speak from the side of your mouth that says what will be received most favorably by your audience at that time. And that one also knows no political/ideologic boundaries. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/46 "2015-02-04T23:41:59Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Question for you: Do you think that there is some relationship between vaccines and mental disorders? I already stated this several times - no. I don’t think so and neither does Rand Paul. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/47 "2015-02-04T23:44:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > She “wound up with” a surprise. The surprise was caused by the belly ache that had her calling out of work. The surprise was the pregnancy. If you think pregnancies are caused by belly aches… ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/48 "2015-02-04T23:49:03Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I already stated this several times - no. I don’t think so and neither does Rand Paul. Keep flinging that poo, monkey. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/49 "2015-02-05T00:15:33Z")
> [@WPA-Guy](#): > > Sen. Thom Tillis described his own history of opposing certain health and hygiene regulations, including those that require employees to wash their hands after using the bathroom. (Why would you even have such a history?) And why would he brag about it? Oh yeah, he’s stupid. For the people (person?) in power who believe hand-washing requirements abridge our freedom, may I present Exhibit A, [Typhoid Mary.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_Mary) > [@](#): > > Mallon admitted poor hygiene, saying she did not understand the purpose of hand-washing because she did not pose a risk. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/50 "2015-02-05T00:21:32Z")
> [@WPA-Guy](#): > > He was not referring to vaccinating children, but forcing a quarantine on a healthcare worker who had returned from Africa that showed no symptoms. Christie was unrepentant even though his quarantine order made no sense since the public was never at risk. Back then, the public was irrationally afraid of Ebola. Christie was doing what the public probably wanted, even if it was unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/51 "2015-02-05T00:26:16Z")
At least anti-vaccination isn’t essentially a party plank, the way climate-change denial and (often) evolution denial are for Republicans. It’s still idiocy. Also, the Democrats are hardly part of the Left. Speaking of idiocy, **Terr** also claims that racism is no longer a problem for black Americans, and instead racial inequalities in well-being can be explained by “victim culture” and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/52 "2015-02-05T00:45:15Z")
It reminds me of Ralph Nader talking about his work on seat belts. He said Ronald Reagan wanted people to have the freedom to get thrown through their windshield when they had a car accident, but he (Nader) didn’t agree with that freedom and felt there should be mandatory safety features to prevent it. Never underestimate the rabidness of anti-statism. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/53 "2015-02-05T01:33:09Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I already stated this several times - no. I don’t think so and neither does Rand Paul. This is a response to my question about whether you think there is some relationship between vaccines and mental disorders. You chose to speak for Rand Paul, too. Except, upthread, you explained Paul’s enigmatic quote by pointing out that he meant that vaccines and mental disorders are “temporally related”. Which is to say that you are doing a really poor job acting as Rand Paul’s inner thoughts (or, alternatively, he really is as duplicitous as some suspect). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/54 "2015-02-05T01:40:03Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > This is a response to my question about whether you think there is some relationship between vaccines and mental disorders. You chose to speak for Rand Paul, too. > > Except, upthread, you explained Paul’s enigmatic quote by pointing out that he meant that vaccines and mental disorders are “temporally related”. Yes. Which means, for vocabulary-challenged, that the autistic withdrawal in toddlers happens right around the time after major vaccinations usually are applied. No causation, but in time the two events follow each other. Which is what is meant by “temporally related”. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/55 "2015-02-05T01:55:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. Which means, for vocabulary-challenged, that the autistic withdrawal in toddlers happens right around the time after major vaccinations usually are applied. No causation, but in time the two events follow each other. Which is what is meant by “temporally related”. I know what the word “temporal” means. Do you know what the word “related” means? Because you said that Rand Paul doesn’t think the two are related, despite the fact that he said they were. (ETA: It’s also worth noting that he isn’t just saying that autism emerges around the time that vaccines are given. Rather, he is giving credence to those who believe that there is.) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/56 "2015-02-05T02:05:27Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I know what the word “temporal” means. Do you know what the word “related” means? Because you said that Rand Paul doesn’t think the two are related, despite the fact that he said they were. If you don’t understand what “temporally related” means, that’s your problem. Rand Paul, explicitly, said that he did not imply causation. > [@](#): > > (ETA: It’s also worth noting that he isn’t just saying that autism emerges around the time that vaccines are given. Rather, he is giving credence to those who believe that there is.) Try restating this in a non-gibberish way. “believe that there is” what? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/57 "2015-02-05T02:06:42Z")
I fucked up the end of my last lost. I tried to add a link to a NY Times article on Paul’s affiliation with a group that promotes the “debate” about vaccines and autism, and I meant to type that he is giving credence to those who believe that there is a link. It’s hard to type on a phone. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/58 "2015-02-05T02:14:45Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I fucked up the end of my last lost. I tried to add a link to a NY Times article on Paul’s affiliation with a group that promotes the “debate” about vaccines and autism, and I meant to type that he is giving credence to those who believe that there is a link. > > It’s hard to type on a phone. If you mean [this one](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/05/us/politics/rand-paul-linked-to-association-of-american-physicians-and-surgeons.html?_r=0), maybe you missed this: On Tuesday, Mr. Paul sought to clarify those comments, inviting a New York Times reporter to accompany him to the Capitol physician’s office to watch him receive a hepatitis A booster vaccination. During the visit, Mr. Paul said he believed that the science was definitive on the matter and that vaccines were not harmful. “It just annoys me that I’m being characterized as someone who’s against vaccines,” he said as he rolled up his T-shirt sleeve before the shot. “That’s not what I said. I said I’ve heard of people who’ve had vaccines, and they see a temporal association and they believe that.” As for “smearing by association” thing that NYT is doing - what was NYT’s stance on Obama’s association with Jeremiah Wright? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/59 "2015-02-05T02:42:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If you mean [this one](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/05/us/politics/rand-paul-linked-to-association-of-american-physicians-and-surgeons.html?_r=0), maybe you missed this: > > On Tuesday, Mr. Paul sought to clarify those comments, inviting a New York Times reporter to accompany him to the Capitol physician’s office to watch him receive a hepatitis A booster vaccination. During the visit, Mr. Paul said he believed that the science was definitive on the matter and that vaccines were not harmful. > > “It just annoys me that I’m being characterized as someone who’s against vaccines,” he said as he rolled up his T-shirt sleeve before the shot. “That’s not what I said. I said I’ve heard of people who’ve had vaccines, and they see a temporal association and they believe that.” > > As for “smearing by association” thing that NYT is doing - what was NYT’s stance on Obama’s association with Jeremiah Wright? That was a very stupid association to make then and now as Obama refuted what Wright said and even left his church because of him. As for the matter at hand… Just on Daily Kos an opinion piece mentioned that “I am again impressed by just how often Sen. Rand Paul (and most other politicians) presume their audiences to be made up of absolute morons.” I’m not impress like Mr. H at Daily Kos is, I know posters over here that show that quality on every post. _Temporal Association_? Sure, I guess that for many morons that sounds like great leadership coming from Rand Paul, but they are just more weasel words. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830/60 "2015-02-05T06:39:38Z")
When measles broke out among the Amish past summer, they couldn’t WAIT to get to get into their horses and buggies and get shots: [http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/06/24/323702892/measles-outbreak-in-ohio-leads-amish-to-reconsider-vaccines](http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/06/24/323702892/measles-outbreak-in-ohio-leads-amish-to-reconsider-vaccines) I suspect that if Rand Paul and his family came down with these diseases, he would quickly change his mind on the “freedom of choice” thing. Sometimes government has to step in to protect stupid people from themselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-public-health-and-safety-is-being-debated-about-just-as-if-its-a-political-belief/711830.md?page=4)