# Now that Elon Musk has bought Twitter - now the Pit edition (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 25, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442 "2022-04-25T22:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 176
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3504 "2023-03-05T14:11:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What inventions has he patented that have reduced space transportation costs? [Here’s a list of SpaceX’s patents](https://insights.greyb.com/spacex-patent/). It’s not exhaustive, but includes a lot of patents for antennae, as well as at least one for a fuel injector tip or something–I’m no rocket scientist. Dude is a hot mess, but both Tesla and SpaceX have incontrovertibly advanced their fields. Him being a hot mess isn’t predicated on him having had no successes. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3505 "2023-03-05T14:35:57Z")
Is it incontrovertible? Take a look at those antenna patents, for example. Most of them were developed by Shahrzad Jalali Mazlouman when she was a postdoc at Simon Fraser university, and SpaceX presumably paid to have exclusive rights to them. But at no point, as far as I can tell, did she actually work for SpaceX. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3506 "2023-03-05T14:36:28Z")
Seems to me we can add a new aphorism to the long and hoary list: > Money corrupts. Absolute money corrupts absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3507 "2023-03-05T15:06:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Dude is a hot mess, but both Tesla and SpaceX have incontrovertibly advanced their fields. Him being a hot mess isn’t predicated on him having had no successes. Yeah. He’d be considered one of the greatest\* people of our times, if he’d just shut the fuck up. (Greatest, not necessarily best. Henry Ford was of the greatest people of _his_ time, and he was a Nazi.) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3508 "2023-03-05T15:21:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Dude is a hot mess, but both Tesla and SpaceX have incontrovertibly advanced their fields. Him being a hot mess isn’t predicated on him having had no successes. > [@Alessan](#): > > He’d be considered one of the greatest\* people of our times, if he’d just shut the fuck up. > > (Greatest, not necessarily best. True. With him, and with a certain other unpleasant Very Influential Person of recent years, I’ve noticed a certain tendency to take a position of denying that they may have got done _anything_ right _ever_, no matter what, and they just stumbled by dumb luck into their achievements. At the very least in a couple of areas Musk picked a winner to invest on (and it profited him greatly). That is a statement of fact, not an expression of moral approval. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3509 "2023-03-05T16:08:56Z")
There’s no question that Elmo was (and is) an ambitious entrepreneur, although his direct contributions to his successes were more obvious with his early, smaller ventures. Undaunted by failing to get a job at Netscape, he started Zip2, a sort of internet-based yellow pages service that became quite successful, and then later [X.com](http://X.com), a payments processor, which eventually led to Paypal. But even in these smaller ventures, he was ousted as CEO and replaced by more experienced and level-headed executives, and to the extent that he did hold leadership roles, his asshole-ish nature was constantly creating turmoil. In the era of Tesla and SpaceX, it becomes increasingly unclear to what extent, if any, Elmo was much of an individual contributor, other than taking wild gambles, hiring great engineers, and throwing vast sums of money at the various ventures. It’s certainly clear from the chaos at Twitter that he’s an absolutely terrible leader. He’s an arrogant, incorrigible asshole who treats his employees with utter contempt, rages about having to pay taxes, and promotes far-right fascism. He’s accomplished a lot, but every bit of the disdain for him in this thread is well deserved. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3510 "2023-03-06T00:11:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [Here’s a list of SpaceX’s patents](https://insights.greyb.com/spacex-patent/). I didn’t ask about SpaceX’s patents. I asked about Elmo’s patents. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3511 "2023-03-06T00:28:47Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I asked about Elmo’s patents. Can you identify the part of the SpaceX plan that relies on Elmo to invent a bunch of stuff by himself? SpaceX is doing extraordinary things, maybe they’re doing it because of Elmo, maybe in spite of Elmo, but the man said “we are going to space” and damn they are going to space, as well or better than anyone else around. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3512 "2023-03-06T00:29:40Z")
If you have the greatest rocket scientist the world has ever seen, it seems a waste to not use him. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3513 "2023-03-06T00:33:40Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Can you identify the part of the SpaceX plan that relies on Elmo to invent a bunch of stuff by himself? The part where its reputation is based around Elmo supposedly being some sort of revolutionary genius that inspires people to say things like “He reduced space transportation costs.” > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > the man said “we are going to space” and damn they are going to space, as well or better than anyone else around. So what Elmo brings to the table is that he says things? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3514 "2023-03-06T00:37:36Z")
I’m no fan of Musk, but this is starting to feel like a reach. Would Steve Jobs fare any better under such analysis? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3515 "2023-03-06T00:52:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yeah. He’d be considered one of the greatest\* people of our times, if he’d just shut the fuck up. Remember how _cool_ it was that Elon launched his own convertible into space with a mannequin in a spacesuit, and sent it on its way? That guy was cool. Now we have Agile Elmo. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3516 "2023-03-06T01:23:49Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Remember how _cool_ it was that Elon launched his own convertible into space with a mannequin in a spacesuit, and sent it on its way? That guy was cool. > > Now we have Agile Elmo. Right. And irritatingly, we know, that was the same person with the same flaws that have been known all along. Just that as time progresses he has increasingly let his freak flag fly entirely unmoored, and by Og we really don’t like that flag. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3517 "2023-03-06T01:30:54Z")
At the risk of having to put up with more stupid ‘Agile’ digs, Elon Musk has said that he doesn’t believe in patenting his stuff. > [@](#): > > While showing Jay Leno some rockets, entrepreneur and world’s richest man [Elon Musk](https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/what-is-going-on-with-elon-musk-and-twitter/431198) dismissed the idea of protecting intellectual property. > > “I don’t care about patents… Patents are for the weak,” Musk said, according to [CNBC Make It.](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/21/why-elon-musk-says-patents-are-for-the-weak.html) > > Musk appeared on Jay Leno’s Garage, a CNBC show, and took the “Tonight Show” host around SpaceX’s Starbase in South Texas, one of the company’s main operating sites. > > On the show, [Musk told Leno about the stainless steel](https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/09/15/new-elon-musk-shows-jay-his-spacex-rocket-engines.html) on the outside of one of the company’s rockets and called it probably “the most counterintuitive thing.” > > “Is that something you’ve patented?” Leno asked. > > “No. we don’t really patent things,” he answered. “Patents are generally used as a blocking technique,” Musk said. > > “They don’t actually help advance things, they just stop others from following you, and most patents are BS,” he added. That’s actually a ‘progressive’ attitude that most of you probably would have thought was awesome until you learned that Musk was a hated ‘other’. > **[Elon Musk Tells Jay Leno Patents Are 'For The Weak' | Entrepreneur](https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/elon-musk-tells-jay-leno-patents-are-for-the-weak/435874)** > > The Tesla CEO has been known to have a freewheeling approach to intellectual property, at least on paper. This is not just hot air. Tesla actually has a pledge to not pursue intellectual property claims against its tech: > [@](#): > > On June 12, 2014, [Tesla announced](https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you) that it will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use its technology. Tesla was created to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport, and this policy is intended to encourage the advancement of a common, rapidly-evolving platform for electric vehicles, thereby benefiting Tesla, other companies making electric vehicles, and the world. These guidelines provide further detail as to how we are implementing this policy. > > ### Tesla’s Pledge > > Tesla irrevocably pledges that it will not initiate a lawsuit against any party for infringing a Tesla Patent through activity relating to electric vehicles or related equipment for so long as such party is acting in good faith. Key terms of the Pledge are explained below. Isn’t this what progressives want? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3518 "2023-03-06T01:31:52Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I’m no fan of Musk, but this is starting to feel like a reach. Would Steve Jobs fare any better under such analysis? Steve Jobs was a gigantic, epic, world-class douchebag. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3519 "2023-03-06T01:35:42Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > At the risk of having to put up with more stupid ‘Agile’ digs, Elon Musk has said that he doesn’t believe in patenting his stuff. He went on to add that those grapes were probably sour anyway. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Isn’t this what progressives want? I’m not sure where you got the idea that progressives are opposed to patents. It’s certainly not something I’ve heard any progressives talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3520 "2023-03-06T01:48:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m not sure where you got the idea that progressives are opposed to patents. Probably conflating stuff like “progressives are opposed to extortionate prices on cheaply produced lifesaving drugs” and “progressives favor patent reform” with “progressives are opposed to patents.” Which is a common conservative tactic, right? Progressives: “We need to reform the criminal justice system.” Conservatives: “They want to let murderers walk the streets!” P: “We need to reform immigration” C: "They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” P: “We need to reform the patent system.” C: “They want to abolish patents!” Etc etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3521 "2023-03-06T01:49:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m not sure where you got the idea that progressives are opposed to patents. It’s certainly not something I’ve heard any progressives talking about. Yeah really. We oppose the sort of _abuse_ of the Intellectual Property system that threatened the virtual obliteration of Fair Use and the Public Domain and leads to products essential to patients’ survival remaining proprietary and expensive for an entire lifetime. But it’s a fair cop to claim the fruits of your creativity for a reasonable time (and support for “open source” technology does not mean opposition to intellectual property, either) Elon scorns patents because it means that if someone else invents something he needs for his projects he then has to pay for it… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3522 "2023-03-06T01:56:52Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Would Steve Jobs fare any better under such analysis? Steve Jobs is literally dead because he believed his own hype instead of the science. > [@](#): > > Jobs resisted his doctors’ recommendations for medical intervention for nine months, in favor of alternative medicine. According to Harvard researcher Ramzi Amri, this “led to an unnecessarily early death”. Other doctors agree that Jobs’s diet was insufficient to address his disease. However, cancer researcher and alternative medicine critic David Gorski wrote that “it’s impossible to know whether and by how much he might have decreased his chances of surviving his cancer through his flirtation with woo. My best guess was that Jobs probably only modestly decreased his chances of survival, if that.” Barrie R. Cassileth, the chief of Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center’s integrative medicine department, on the other hand, said, "Jobs’ faith in alternative medicine likely cost him his life… He had the only kind of pancreatic cancer that is treatable and curable… He essentially committed suicide."According to biographer Walter Isaacson, “for nine months he refused to undergo surgery for his pancreatic cancer – a decision he later regretted as his health declined”. “Instead, he tried a vegan diet, acupuncture, herbal remedies, and other treatments he found online, and even consulted a psychic. He was also influenced by a doctor who ran a clinic that advised juice fasts, bowel cleansings and other unproven approaches, before finally having surgery in July 2004”. He underwent a pancreaticoduodenectomy (or “Whipple procedure”) that appeared to remove the tumor successfully. Jobs did not receive chemotherapy or radiation therapy. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/3523 "2023-03-06T02:03:42Z")
@Sam_Stone It’s a good thing to do, I would say. While people are entitled to make money off their inventions, it’s always great when they opt to let something be public domain. But your example seems to be him trying to have his cake and eat it, too. I mean, Tesla still had the patent granted. They just pledge not to sue. Such a pledge can be rescinded in a way refusing to patent cannot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442.md?page=175) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442.md?page=177)