# Now that Elon Musk has bought Twitter - now the Pit edition (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 25, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442 "2022-04-25T22:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 261
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5206 "2023-06-19T21:28:49Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > I thought the pointing was like a shame finger, or how one points and laughs. Nope. Honest praise, now sit back and enjoy it! The only shame finger involved is to the usual suspects who every few months create threads about how pointless and evil The Pit is and that it’s nothing but the aforementioned hive of hate and groupthink. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5207 "2023-06-19T21:41:46Z")
Today and yesterday I’ve been getting hit with ads demanding that a vaccine researcher who the antivaxers (and Elmo) have declared the Soros-Backed Boogeyman Of The Week go on Joe Rogan and debate RFK Jr. I wonder if those ads are even getting paid for or if Elmo is just pushing them out there for free because LOL PODCAST WEED MAN FUNNY. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5208 "2023-06-19T21:56:43Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > The only shame finger involved is to the usual suspects who every few months create threads about how pointless and evil The Pit is and that it’s nothing but the aforementioned hive of hate and groupthink. I AGREE WITH YOU FOR THE HIVE DEEMS IT SO BZZZZZZZ ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5209 "2023-06-19T22:37:43Z")
Oh, Honey, I love it when you wax poetic. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5210 "2023-06-19T23:57:07Z")
Twitter absolutely had problems before Musk bought them but I think they’re worse off now than they were before. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5211 "2023-06-20T00:22:14Z")
One of us. One of us. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5212 "2023-06-20T09:49:47Z")
Just to show I don’t dump on Musk for every single thing he does and that I’m fair-minded on the occasions when he’s actually right about something … > **[Music Publishers File (Somewhat Weak) Copyright Lawsuit Against Twitter](https://www.techdirt.com/2023/06/15/music-publishers-file-somewhat-weak-copyright-lawsuit-against-twitter/)** > > To be honest, I’m somewhat amazed that more copyright lawsuits haven’t been filed against Twitter yet. There have been multiple reports of how the company’s DMCA takedown response systems have been… The recording-industry mafia has been trying to strong-arm Twitter into signing up for a probably unnecessary licensing agreement, on top of DMCA takedown compliance. Negotiations broke down after Musk’s acquisition, so now they’re suing him. Per the article, this is mostly a crock of nonsense, and if Musk wants to fight it in court, there’s a reasonable chance he’ll be able to show the music industry is overreaching and that he’ll prevail. The lawsuit quotes a Musk tweet in which he says that the DMCA is a “plague on humanity” as ostensible evidence for his disregard and dismissal of his legal obligations. He _does_ disregard and dismiss his legal obligations in general, but in this specific case, Musk is one hundred percent completely correct. DMCA is a terrible law that on balance has damaged the culture far more than it has protected the rights of creative artists. It desperately needs to be revisited and reconsidered from the ground up. Note that I would not at all trust Musk’s ideas for a replacement law, but in the simple observation that the existing legal framework is bullshit, he is directly on target. So there you go. He is not a _total_ idiot. He recognizes the current weaponization of copyright defense as nothing more than the primary tool of the music-distribution mafia. Spot on. And while I may loathe the man personally and professionally, I have enough perspective to recognize that he’s right in this, and I hope he and Twitter win this battle and send the recording-industry locusts packing. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5213 "2023-06-20T10:08:43Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > So there you go. He is not a _total_ idiot. He recognizes the current weaponization of copyright defense as nothing more than the primary tool of the music-distribution mafia. Spot on. You oppose DMCA because it’s an abuse of the copyright system that benefits megacorps at the expense of creators. Elmo opposes DMCA because he doesn’t like paying his bills. You are not the same. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5214 "2023-06-20T11:14:01Z")
We both oppose DMCA because it’s a badly-formed law that is grossly misused. I say it’s misused to radically distort the creative marketplace; he says it’s misused to force him to pay money he doesn’t want to pay. But behind that, he’s still right. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5215 "2023-06-20T11:20:41Z")
I don’t think that really counts as being “right” for the same reason Donald Trump’s “law enforcement is abusive because it’s being mean to me” whines don’t support (and, if anything, undermine) complaints about actual misdeeds by law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5216 "2023-06-20T11:55:40Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > He recognizes the current weaponization of copyright defense as nothing more than the primary tool of the music-distribution mafia. You say this as though he wouldn’t be the biggest mafioso of them all 15 minutes after investing in a record company. There is no recognition of an inherent problem with DMCA, it’s recognition that he’s being attacked, which is a level of understanding available to all creatures with a couple of ganglia to rub together. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5217 "2023-06-20T12:08:22Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > But behind that, he’s still right. This is quite literally the “stopped clock” sense of ‘right’ but you do you. It is true the end result is the same in this specific case, but the why’s do matter. As above, if the situation changes and the DMCA comes to benefit him, his tune will change in a nanosecond ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5218 "2023-06-20T12:44:31Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > You say this as though he wouldn’t be the biggest mafioso of them all 15 minutes after investing in a record company. Which is why I specifically said I wouldn’t trust him to propose a replacement law, because it would be inevitably self-serving. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5219 "2023-06-20T13:18:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Today and yesterday I’ve been getting hit with ads demanding that a vaccine researcher who the antivaxers (and Elmo) have declared the Soros-Backed Boogeyman Of The Week go on Joe Rogan and debate RFK Jr. Elon Musk has been egging on vaccine researcher Dr. Peter Hotez to accept a challenge to “debate” RFK Jr. on Joe Rogan’s show (this happened after Hotez criticized Rogan for interviewing and enabling RFK Jr’s antivax crazy). As a result, loonies from all over Twitter have been descending on Hotez to attack him and a couple stalkers even showed up at his house in Houston. > **[Musk Incites Anti-Vaccine Conspiracists By Mischaracterizing Peter Hotez](https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2023/06/19/musk-incites-anti-vaccine-conspiracists-by-mischaracterizing-peter-hotez/)** > > Declining a debate with an anti-vaccine crusader is understandable. It would amplify and in the eyes of many viewers legitimize Kennedy as somehow an equal adversary. It’s bizarre (and depressing) how many people think that putting a scientist up to debate a slick political demagogue in a live forum is the way to settle a scientific issue. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5220 "2023-06-20T14:09:46Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It’s bizarre (and depressing) how many people think that putting a scientist up to debate a slick political demagogue in a live forum is the way to settle a scientific issue. People in general don’t understand science and authoritarians specifically have trouble with it. There should be a debate, consisting of each participant reading aloud their published, peer-reviewed journal articles in turn. That would be science. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5221 "2023-06-20T14:20:17Z")
But very unlikely to give Joe Rogan high ratings. Instead of a staged debate, it’s been suggested that RFK Jr. author a research paper outlining his claims about vaccines, get it through peer review and accepted by a top-tier scienttific journal and then undergoing scientific scrutiny for six months (if that’s accomplished, Rogan or Musk donate $$ to charity). No word on acceptance of that challenge yet. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5222 "2023-06-20T14:28:46Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > People in general don’t understand science and authoritarians specifically have trouble with it. > > There should be a debate, consisting of each participant reading aloud their published, peer-reviewed journal articles in turn. That would be science. Science! [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwSwLEWUcAAK9UK?format=jpg&name=large) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwSwLEWUcAAK9UK?format=jpg&name=large) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5223 "2023-06-20T15:33:15Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > People in general don’t understand science and authoritarians specifically have trouble with it. > **[Holocaust Memorial Day Trust | Genocide in Cambodia](https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/cambodia/the-genocide/)** > > The Khmer Rouge, under the leadership of Pol Pot seized power in Cambodia between 1975-79. All towns and cities were emptied and their populations forced to work as agricultural slave labourers in a federation of collective farms, known as 'The... > Lawyers, doctors, teachers, engineers, scientists and qualified professionals in any field were murdered, along with their extended families. Victims of the Khmer Rouge could be shot for knowing a foreign language, wearing glasses, laughing, crying or expressing love for another person. When what you believe is contradicted by facts and science, silence the people who are experts in facts and science. Just ask [Galileo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair). ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5224 "2023-06-20T15:52:37Z")
Meh. Galileo was kind of arrogant and a jerk in person. And that did not help him. Nor the fact his science wasn’t all that great, either (Copernicus, Brahe, and Kepler did the real heavy lifting there). What actually happened - he got off with a relative slap on the wrist for being a wanker towards his former friend (among several others), who happened to become Pope. The persecution for science bit has been exaggerated over the years. Dr Hotez, on the other hand, is not a jerk, Elon Musk and Joe Rogan are not his former friends, and neither are they the Pope/Inquisition. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/5225 "2023-06-20T16:08:48Z")
Hotez could offer to debate RFK Jr but in a genuinely neutral venue - perhaps an academic or scientific setting. It would force Kennedy to put up or shut up, and remove Rogan as Chief Shitstirrer. But he doesn’t have to humor the request at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442.md?page=260) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442.md?page=262)