# Now that Elon Musk has bought Twitter - now the Pit edition (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 25, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442 "2022-04-25T22:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 384
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7666 "2023-11-15T15:20:27Z")
“… it’s believed that around two million people have ordered a Cybertruck for themselves.” Sure. As long as no down payment was required. > **[People left in disbelief after seeing Cybertruck's build quality](https://www.unilad.com/technology/news/tesla-cybertruck-elon-musk-release-date-review-453738-20231113?fbclid=IwAR3eLyKTyBGlgeu4ZVfFPZPIoM5HzgxdszUprFD5S5M6cwAlUbu9471vuog_aem_AUVG4vnBAo7l2No3h57Wqfh15lAVG9r3ratHzwyqRrVfHuck37fit9UxYdmSs1-IRxI)** > > People aren't overwhelmed with the build quality of Tesla's Cybertruck, which is out this month ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7667 "2023-11-15T16:28:20Z")
Early quality control issues seem to be a consistent thing with Tesla. And, to be honest, their QA/QC even on their existing production lines seems to be closer to ‘acceptable’ than industry leading. I’m surprised people are surprised by it at this point. It’s happened on every single model they’ve produced. Panel gaps were reported in the early going on all their models up to now, so the fanboys making up excuses that this shows it’s a hand made demo rather than a production vehicle are rather pathetic. It usually takes several months of active production for Tesla to work these things out. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7668 "2023-11-15T17:43:07Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It usually takes several months of active production for Tesla to work these things out. It’s weird that the fanniest of fanboys can’t embrace this and position it as a strength. Go fast/break stuff/continuously improve is a good thing. Acknowledging that early articles are imperfect totally supports that narrative. It’s completely in Tesla’s ethos. _It flatters Tesla._ This is the only explanation that makes sense, and it’s head-scratching that the more obnoxious fans don’t see and seize on it. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7669 "2023-11-15T18:50:26Z")
Does it also mean that the earliest buyers are going to get a product that’s going to be inferior to what comes out a year later? That’s a lot to put $100,000 (+ applicable taxes and insurance) on. I wonder how hard it will be to get insurance on these in states where Tesla doesn’t sell it directly… ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7670 "2023-11-15T18:55:24Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Does it also mean that the earliest buyers are going to get a product that’s going to be inferior to what comes out a year later? Possibly. Let’s not kid ourselves that this is entirely unique to Tesla. Early adopters have almost universally suffered from lower product quality, in many product fields. “Never buy the ‘.0’ revision of any software product” is ancient engineering wisdom. Anyone who is surprised by this, or expects anything different, hasn’t been paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7671 "2023-11-15T19:21:32Z")
Some of them will certainly get an inferior product. It’s happened with each model released so far - early build quality issues while they smooth things out on the assembly line. Certainly not every vehicle off the line but certainly a noticeably greater proportion than any of the other automakers in the US when debuting a new model But if early adopting fanboys want to take that sort of risk for themselves for tens of thousands of their dollars, it’s none of my affair. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7672 "2023-11-15T19:29:32Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Possibly. Let’s not kid ourselves that this is entirely unique to Tesla. Early adopters have almost universally suffered from lower product quality, in many product fields. “Never buy the ‘.0’ revision of any software product” is ancient engineering wisdom. Absolutely. Anyone who is an early adopter is a beta tester of sorts. Which is why at my work, they give new stuff to us in IT, because we can deal with the problems a bit better than everyone else and can report on those problems better to those who need to fix things. Meanwhile, we’re trying to actually use those products in production doing our regular jobs. It can suck but it goes with the territory. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7673 "2023-11-15T19:34:03Z")
Back to complaints about Musk _as related_ to the Cybertruck, rather than just the Cybertruck: originally the ‘base’ model (which is now going to be released later, if at all) was to be RWD single motor for $40k (rounding up), the two motor for $50k, and the tri motor for $60k. It’s all but been confirmed that those prices were unspeakably unrealistic, but has anyone seen credible predictions for the actual prices? I’ve been working with an assumption of $80k as entry level for the two motor version, based on a guesstimate from [Business Insider](https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-truck-cybertruck-cost-expensive-2023-10) that the top tier will likely be at or over $100k. But I’d love if anyone else has more information however speculative. Still, I wonder how many of the current reservations (whatever number of them are legit rather than speculative) are going to be comfortable paying those sorts of prices given the initial ask was $40-60k. Note, I know this isn’t very Pit like (other than the doubling of price) but I full expect it to be Pit-able in two weeks ( 🤣 but IT IS two weeks from the end of November) when the actual prices roll out and Elon says something about how people should be _honored_ to pay $XXX for such a vehicle). ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7674 "2023-11-15T19:40:00Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Which is why at my work, they give new stuff to us in IT, because we can deal with the problems a bit better than everyone else and can report on those problems better to those who need to fix things. Appears to be the Tesla approach if this is real (looks pretty reasonable). [https://x.com/garageklub/status/1723915771313795104?s=20](https://x.com/garageklub/status/1723915771313795104?s=20) ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7675 "2023-11-15T19:41:35Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > If you ever get this question again, tell them there’s no bridge, but if they drive to the summit of the volcano, they can attach their car to the zip line. Nice! Will do. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7676 "2023-11-15T19:55:59Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > “… it’s believed that around two million people have ordered a Cybertruck for themselves.” > > Sure. As long as no down payment was required. Correct me if my math is wrong here, but 2 million Cybertrucks at $99,000 each is 2,000,000x99,000= 198,000,000,000, right? As in $198 billion. Maybe Elmo can pay off the loan he took out to buy Twitter! Or buy 15 nuclear aircraft carriers to donate to Ukraine or something. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7677 "2023-11-15T20:36:16Z")
I would expect the Cybertruck to be at least 20% higher than originally promised just due to the inflation we’ve experienced since the original price estimates. As a guess, I’d say they will price Cybertruck about the same as the F-150 Lightning. Ford has a base ‘work’ version that’s pretty plain inside, which is now I believe $60,000 or so (the price keeps changing). The top end Lightning is still well over $100,000, as I expect the top end Cybertruck to be. The thing is ugly, but more to the point seems really compromised as a truck. It competes more with something like a Honda Ridgeline, IMO. But maybe there will be things about it, like the 4-wheel steering and electric tonneau cover, that are killer features for some market segment. Real world range could kill this thing. It looks to have a battery about midway between the F-150’s small and large batteries - about 120 kWh. That means it’s going to suck just as bad in towing and load carrying, while also being difficult to charge at home without a pro-level charger. This has been a deal killer for F-150s, and it probably will be for Cybertruck as well. Ford lots are now filling up with unsold F-150’s, and Ford cut one of the assembly lines and repurposed it for gas trucks. That doesn’t bode well for the Cybertruck. I think it will be Tesla’s first flop, but I’m not willing to bet on it. It seems to me that work people won’t want it, the Tesla fanboys won’t want it because they already have other Tesla Vehicles and don’t need a giant truck. It will find a niche for a while among people who want the status of a radical vehicle, but won’t sell at all to people who want the status of being a ‘truck person’. Owning this will make you look like a geek, which is the opposite of what truck people tend to want. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7678 "2023-11-15T20:41:51Z")
Two million Cybertrucks seems wildly optimistic. Tesla has sold about 4.5 million cars total. They sell about half that many cars each year. It’s an order of magnitude more than the Model Y sold in 2022. Maybe there’s two million people on a waiting list but that’s hardly the same as two million orders. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7679 "2023-11-15T20:49:31Z")
They are hoping for somewhere around 100,000 trucks sold per year, as I recall. Worst case scenario, if the truck is a complete dud, is to keep the chassis and battery and such and put a new body on the thing. But maybe I’m just old and out of touch and the young people will love it once it’s seen out on the streets. This is a vehicle that might be really hurt by Elon’s reputation. Tesla could count on hundreds of thousands of Tesla fans checking out the Cybertruck, but a lot of those people have been turned off by Musk’s switch to the right. The Model 3 and Model Y are genuinely better than their competitors in many ways, but I think the Cybertruck is more of an emotional sell, and I don’t know if that will work out. Also, interest rates. All high priced vehicls are suffering from this. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7680 "2023-11-15T21:09:40Z")
Plus it has Rivian as a competitor now, and although not without their own teething issues, the R1T is a very impressive and functional vehicle. I was pretty tickled by the included cable lock that slots into a port in the bed and locks and unlocks with the vehicle. That is very cool. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7681 "2023-11-15T22:38:34Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Correct me if my math is wrong here, but 2 million Cybertrucks at $99,000 each is 2,000,000x99,000= 198,000,000,000, right? As in $198 billion. Maybe Elmo can pay off the loan he took out to buy Twitter! Or buy 15 nuclear aircraft carriers to donate to Ukraine or something. If they sold 2M of them, then ~$200B would be their total _revenue_. If they’re making 5% on each one, which is a pretty rich margin, $10B would be their total profit. So Elmo could make a dent in paying off the xitter loans, but not a big dent. ISTM it’d take 5-8 years for them to produce 2M of them (in addition to all the other models Tesla is building), and that assumes they’re in fact selling as fast as they can make them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2023, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7682 "2023-11-15T23:17:07Z")
Anyone surprised that Elon doesn’t like Jews? > ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7683 "2023-11-16T00:04:48Z")
Hard to say which is less surprising, that Elmo believes in the Great Replacement or that Elmo doesn’t consider Jews to be whites (“Jewish communities have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites”). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7684 "2023-11-16T00:34:34Z")
As we’ve talked about in many threads about race, “White” = the good guys like me/us. Not-white is everybody else not quite “us” enough regardless of their skin tone. Which is a very elastic concept depending on who somebody wants to demonize today. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@epbrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/7685 "2023-11-16T01:48:32Z")
Tesla is famous for their high margins. There was a bit of hue and cry when price cuts dropped their margin from 24% to 18% on mew car sales. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442.md?page=383) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442.md?page=385)