# Now that Elon Musk has bought Twitter - now the Pit edition (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 25, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442 "2022-04-25T22:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 445
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8886 "2024-01-31T20:49:34Z")
I think it’s not up to a third party to decide that a contract between two other parties was not ‘fair’, and certainly not five years after the fact. If you can show me stories from the time saying that Elon was screwing over Tesla, that would be interesting. Because the ones I’ve seen said the opposite - that Elon was an idiot for offering the deal, and was going to get fleeced. It was only after he did it that people objected to the deal. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8887 "2024-01-31T20:51:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think it’s not up to a third party to decide that a contract between two other parties was not ‘fair’, and certainly not five years after the fact. So people get to materially misrepresent the facts during a contract, and not be held accountable later? Horseshit. ETA also, the lawsuit was filed back in 2018. It just takes a while for the wheels of justice to grind up cheaters. > **[A thrash metal drummer just took down Elon Musk](https://www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-lawsuit-56-billion-richard-tornetta-delaware-pay-deal-court-1865638)** > > The minority Tesla shareholder successfully argued that Musk's $56 billion compensation package from the company was over the top. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8888 "2024-01-31T20:51:31Z")
I never suggested that. My point was that they should have limited power to interject themselves into other’s deals, in part because rhey don’t (and shouldn’t) have skin in the game. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8889 "2024-01-31T20:53:39Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > they should have limited power to interject themselves into other’s deals Good thing that’s actually how it works then isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8890 "2024-01-31T20:55:00Z")
Having known quite a few people who have been screwed over by unfair contracts, let me go on the record to say I think contract law is good. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8891 "2024-01-31T20:57:50Z")
Am I completely missing something or is Sam suggesting that contract law should not exist?! ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8892 "2024-01-31T21:00:10Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Am I completely missing something or is Sam suggesting that contract law should not exist?!   “Court of Equity” sounds totally woke. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8893 "2024-01-31T21:07:26Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > He got the compensation he did because he increased the market cap of Tesla by a factor of ten in three years. That was the deal. Almost 80% of the board and shareholders voted for it. The problem, as the judge saw it, was when the compensation plan with Musk was negotiated, the board refused to disclose their tight relationship with him, thereby depriving the shareholders of an opportunity to negotiate the deal in good faith. The fix was in from the get go, with Musk and the board colluding to make sure the shareholders would pass the compensation plan that Musk wanted with next to nobody actually representing the interests of the company’s shareholders. I’ll also point out the opinion notes that Musk’s compensation was “30 times greater than its nearest comparable plan” and “250 times greater than the median peer 2017 CEO compensation”. This isn’t a case of Musk getting a just a bit higher compensation than others. It’s a case of Musk and the board colluding to give Musk an outrageously high compensation and taking away any good faith negotitating by the shareholders. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8894 "2024-01-31T21:07:55Z")
I never said anything about contract law in general. Of course you need contract law. I was talking about this case in particular. I get so tired of, “So what you are saying is…” followed by something not even close to what I was saying. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8895 "2024-01-31T21:08:26Z")
It can be up to judge to decide that the agreement was deceptive, though. I’m not sure I agree with this particular decision, though. A whole lot of investors in the recent past have fallen into a thrall over one “visionary” or another, and given them ridiculous latitude and ridiculously beneficial contracts — I’m think Theranos and WeWork, and frankly, I think they get what they deserve when their bets don’t pay off. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8896 "2024-01-31T21:10:40Z")
That is true. And I guess we’ll find out whether the judge overreached during the inevitable appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8897 "2024-01-31T22:24:35Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I get so tired of, “So what you are saying is…” followed by something not even close to what I was saying. How is “anyone but the people involved in the contract directly should mind their business” not essentially calling for contract law to be abolished? _Of course_ an authoritative independent third party should be allowed to judge if the contract was fair and complied with law. Suggesting otherwise is **insane**. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8898 "2024-01-31T22:47:24Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > “Targeted” implies too much specificity. > > Your new friends aren’t targeting you. They’re targeting the Xitter equivalent of “Occupant”. Scanner spammers do that. They cast the widest net to see the most return on their minimal investment. > > What do they gain? Whatever you get from having more “friends” on Twitter, plus the opportunity to perhaps “set the hook” and play you for a scam. I’ve wondered about this. My latest 41 followers are fake. Some have links indicating they are porn-bots. But others appear to be placeholders. I’m guessing following other accounts makes you less likely to be auto-banned by twitter. At some point the placeholders will be sold to other bad actors, who will benefit from the aged join date. Or maybe it’s just a private stockpile held in case the porn bots with links experience a mass banning. They usually give a comment of mine a like, then a follow. The follow often happens immediately after I check their profile. How do they know that? Maybe it’s an artifact of the way twitter’s dataset updates itself. ETA: They want me to follow back. Then they can proceed with further shenanigans. Duh. Regarding the Delaware court decision, here’s Matt Levine’s take at Bloomberg. The gifted link is good for 1 week only: [https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-01-31/elon-musk-is-overpaid?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTcwNjc0MDU0MiwiZXhwIjoxNzA3MzQ1MzQyLCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJTODRaMExUMVVNMFcwMCIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiI3RUU0QUE0NTMyMEM0Mjk0QTBDQTNBODJERUQyQ0YyOSJ9.E8gcxeYmNrjxGcbwPxj9BddV-Mr0AkSu3VVTBAxS-dc](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-01-31/elon-musk-is-overpaid?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTcwNjc0MDU0MiwiZXhwIjoxNzA3MzQ1MzQyLCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJTODRaMExUMVVNMFcwMCIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiI3RUU0QUE0NTMyMEM0Mjk0QTBDQTNBODJERUQyQ0YyOSJ9.E8gcxeYmNrjxGcbwPxj9BddV-Mr0AkSu3VVTBAxS-dc) Matt Levine is a funny and entertaining financial reporter. His missives trend rightwards (“Everything is securities fraud.”), but he isn’t a movement conservative guy and is devoid of the usual preening pompousness, so his positioning defies description. He’s an actual independent thinker, as opposed to a conventional thinker who will never shut up about how independent he is. Best, he gives solid analysis that isn’t afraid to state it’s take, but also isn’t afraid to cover a range of conflicting evidence. He follows Carl Sagan’s dictum (again, without constantly reminding you that he does): > _ **Try not to get overly attached to a hypothesis just because it’s yours. It’s only a way station in the pursuit of knowledge. Ask yourself why you like the idea. Compare it fairly with the alternatives. See if you can find reasons for rejecting it. If you don’t, others will.** _ CARL SAGAN Verge article: > **[Elon Musk won’t get his $55 billion pay package after all](https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/30/24056177/elon-musk-tesla-tornetta-55-billion-pay-package-rejected)** > > The pay package was first approved in 2018. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8899 "2024-01-31T23:00:29Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Verge article: > > [Elon Musk won’t get his $55 billion pay package after all - The Verge](https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/30/24056177/elon-musk-tesla-tornetta-55-billion-pay-package-rejected) La-la La-la…La-la La-la… Elmo’s Wrong… ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8900 "2024-02-01T00:09:48Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Ridiculous verdict. One hour later: > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And I guess we’ll find out whether the judge overreached during the inevitable appeal For as much grief as Sam gets, I appreciate the progress he made here. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8901 "2024-02-01T00:26:09Z")
Oops. > BREAKING: Tesla did a whoopsie at their Fremont factory and polluted a bunch of water (pretty bad) and they can’t keep it contained to their property. Levels of major pollutants massively over what’s legal. Huge mess, no surprise. > > Link below is to a PDF. > > [https://www.envirostor.dtsc.ca.gov/getfile?filename=/public%2Fdeliverable\_documents%2F8014011979%2F20231215%20TESLA%20MOTORS%20GW%20EI%20RETRACTION%20-%20signed.pdf](https://www.envirostor.dtsc.ca.gov/getfile?filename=/public%2Fdeliverable_documents%2F8014011979%2F20231215%20TESLA%20MOTORS%20GW%20EI%20RETRACTION%20-%20signed.pdf) > **[e.w. niedermeyer (@niedermeyer.io)](https://bsky.app/profile/niedermeyer.io/post/3kkcritbbsa2b)** > > BREAKING: Tesla did a whoopsie at their Fremont factory and polluted a bunch of water (pretty bad) and they can't keep it contained to their property. Levels of major pollutants massively over what's legal. Huge mess, no surprise. > > Link below is to a... 2024 starting off great for Elmo. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8902 "2024-02-01T01:47:37Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What if it was an activist shareholder who bought a bunch of shares, used that to sue Musk hoping to win a 54B payday for Tesla then dump the now higher valued stock? That would be something. But let’s get back to discussing what happened instead of something you made up. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8903 "2024-02-01T02:35:57Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Am I completely missing something or is Sam suggesting that contract law should not exist?! Or that judges should only be allowed to do their jobs if they are shareholders in the company that is being sued? “Sorry judge, you have no skin in the game. Piss off.” It’s very confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8904 "2024-02-01T02:37:59Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Suggesting otherwise is **insane**. Well ya, you would say that. Because you have no skin in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2024, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/8905 "2024-02-01T03:06:26Z")
It’s like seeing “conflict of interest” and ignoring the word “conflict”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442.md?page=444) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442.md?page=446)