# Now that Elon Musk has bought Twitter - now the Pit edition (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 25, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442 "2022-04-25T22:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 64
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1261 "2022-11-18T17:01:21Z")
> [@Lavender\_Pebble](#): > > I’m still not sure I understand what Musk is doing - surely he’s making money off this somehow, right? Or is he really just destroying it because he got mad they wouldn’t back out of the deal and he’s so rich it doesn’t matter to him? Option 3: he doesn’t know what he’s doing. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1262 "2022-11-18T17:39:07Z")
> [@Lavender\_Pebble](#): > > I’m still not sure I understand what Musk is doing - surely he’s making money off this somehow, right? Or is he really just destroying it because he got mad they wouldn’t back out of the deal and he’s so rich it doesn’t matter to him? There’s a lot of discussions on whether this is 4D chess or 1D chess over in > [@How does someone with no business acumen get to be the richest person in the world?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-does-someone-with-no-business-acumen-get-to-be-the-richest-person-in-the-world/974903/113): > > “How do you make a small fortune in social media? Start out with a large one.” ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1263 "2022-11-18T18:22:29Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > > [@CaveMike](#): > > > > I don’t think the email is a binding offer. > > IANAL, but that looks like a binding offer to me. IANAL either and you both may be correct. The form was an opt-in to stay and be ‘hardcore’ while doing nothing by 5pm was the way to opt-out. Maybe that changes things? It was clarified later that day that the separation agreement had to be signed to get severance beyond the WARN period. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1264 "2022-11-18T18:34:12Z")
Human Resources people would be having panic attacks about the ‘informality’ of these offers if any of them were still employed by Twitter. Fortunately, Musk can just bring in some of his software experts from Tesla or propulsion engineers from SpaceX to do this job. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1265 "2022-11-18T18:39:17Z")
Musk also may not have thought that his offer to buy twitter was a binding offer, but it was. This is why business owners need to be careful about what they say, and generally run things like that by a legal team before making it public. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1266 "2022-11-18T19:23:06Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > > [@Folacin](#): > > > > > [@CaveMike](#): > > > > > > I don’t think the email is a binding offer. > > > > IANAL, but that looks like a binding offer to me. > > IANAL either and you both may be correct. The form was an opt-in to stay and be ‘hardcore’ while doing nothing by 5pm was the way to opt-out. Maybe that changes things? It was clarified later that day that the separation agreement had to be signed to get severance beyond the WARN period. Right. Not a lawyer, but I think two different issues have been muddled here. The original question was whether this termination/severance was subject to the same terms as the original one regarding non-disclosure agreements. I think it’s reasonable to presume that Musk’s ultimatum, unless it runs afoul of some labour law, would be considered binding if Musk wants to enforce the termination of everyone who didn’t agree to his demands by 5 PM Thursday, and likewise it commits Musk to paying 3 months of severance. BUT … this is completely separate from the issue of whether such an arrangement must be formalized with a signed written agreement, which could impose additional conditions possibly including a non-disclosure clause and perhaps other conditions, and for sure a clause indemnifying Twitter against a future lawsuit, which is absolutely routine in severance agreements. Any employee who refused to sign would still be sacked but wouldn’t get severance. Additionally, non-disclosure or non-compete conditions may have also been part of their original employment contract. Of course, Musk may back-pedal on the whole thing and allow those who didn’t agree to his demands to stay on anyway. Who knows with this madman. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1267 "2022-11-18T19:34:46Z")
> [@Lavender\_Pebble](#): > > Agreed, basically the entire illustration and comics publishing world runs on Twitter. It’s how careers have been made for the past 10+ years, and we don’t know what’s going to happen in the aftermath. Instagram/Tiktok is terrible for sharing art. Interesting. I recently met an artist who sells his stuff online who claims that TikTok is the best platform for getting exposure as a new artist. He gave a bunch of technical reasons for that, and gave a lot of explicit advice about how to successfully market your stuff on TikTok. (To be clear, i meet him at an event, and he gave a presentation about how to break into the field using online resources.) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1268 "2022-11-18T19:45:02Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > IANAL either and you both may be correct. The form was an opt-in to stay and be ‘hardcore’ while doing nothing by 5pm was the way to opt-out. Maybe that changes things? How on earth is “be hardcore” any sort of binding offer? The best option for employees would be to click ‘yes’ and continue business as usual (unless you have a complication like a work visa dependency, which I suspect may be the majority of people left). Then when you’re accused of not being “hardcore” you sue on the basis that “hardcore” was never defined. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1269 "2022-11-18T20:12:17Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I think it’s reasonable to presume that Musk’s ultimatum, unless it runs afoul of some labour law, would be considered binding if Musk wants to enforce the termination of everyone who didn’t agree to his demands by 5 PM Thursday, and likewise it commits Musk to paying 3 months of severance. His offer is ‘click to stay’ or ‘do nothing before 5pm to get 3 months’. Then before 5pm the company releases more requirements on how to get the 3 months. It seems like an employee would have to have actively opted-out before the additional requirements were added in order to ‘lock in’ the original offer. They would have had to email their boss or HR and accepted his opt-out choice. IANAL and it seems like contract law (or whatever this is considered) are full of subtleties that may push it one way or the other. I don’t know that both parties always have to actively accept an offer. As @Stranger_On_A_Train said HR and legal would be rolling over in their aero chairs if they weren’t all eliminated. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The best option for employees would be to click ‘yes’ and continue business as usual (unless you have a complication like a work visa dependency, which I suspect may be the majority of people left). Then when you’re accused of not being “hardcore” you sue on the basis that “hardcore” was never defined. Yeah it’s a mess. I think your strategy would be fine, but I disagree that it is the best option. The best option is to take the 3 months and get out of there. 😉 This was a corporate-wide voluntary retirement offer, but presented in the most ridiculous and obnoxious way. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1270 "2022-11-18T20:14:50Z")
Soon no one will have a job there, and there will be nothing left to sue for. Twitter is going to declare bankruptcy in short order and anyone who didn’t get theirs before the walls came crumbling down is going to be left holding dust. _That’s_ why so many people took the severance. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1271 "2022-11-18T20:19:28Z")
[Here is the most up to date reporting from the NY Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/18/technology/elon-musk-twitter-workers-quit.html) (probably paywalled). Some quotes: > Some internal estimates showed that at least 1,200 full-time employees resigned on Thursday, three people close to the company said. Twitter had 7,500 full-time employees at the end of October, which dropped to about 3,700 after mass layoffs earlier this month. > Perhaps the most crucial question now is how Twitter can keep running after the giant reduction to its work force in such a short time. The effects of the cuts and resignations have played out across the company’s technology teams, people with knowledge of the matter said. > > One team known as Twitter Command Center, a 20-person organization crucial to preventing outages and technology failures during high-traffic events, had multiple people from around the world resign, two former employees said. The “core services” team, which handles computing architecture, was cut to four people from more than 100. Other teams that deal with how media appears in tweets or how profiles show follower counts were down to zero people. > The changes were occurring in a near total information vacuum internally, employees said. Twitter’s internal communications staff has been laid off or left and workers said they were looking outward for information from media articles. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1272 "2022-11-18T20:24:23Z")
> > > Apparently Space Karen thinks he can fire his way out of all his problems. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1273 "2022-11-18T20:38:04Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > IANAL and it seems like contract law (or whatever this is considered) are full of subtleties that may push it one way or the other. Right, and you know who else INAL? Musk. He probably did create a number of obligations that he did not mean to with that email that employees may be able to take him to court to uphold. How it all plays out is fairly uncertain, but I’m sure the legal team is damn glad they got out when they did so they wouldn’t have to clean up this mess. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1274 "2022-11-18T21:08:39Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > For me, the Mastodon experience is the same as Twitter (although with fewer people so far) because I never followed trending topics anyway. I just use Twitter for the jokes and to read tweets from people I like and respect. It does seem extremely similar. I haven’t quite figured out the whole “choose a server” thing, but I’m not entirely sure that it matters. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Option C: Musk thinks these are but short term losses/difficulties and his in-born talent and drive will lead to a revolutionary change at the company that will result in an unprecedented boom, i.e. he has fully bought into the myth of his own genius/infallibility. Ab-so-frickin-lutely. Hence the schadenfreude. On the other hand, what’s happening to the work force is terrible. > Doesn’t that sound like a good time - quick send me your best work and then come meet with me. It’ll be fun! Pointed questions from a petulant nitwit, with a high likelihood of being fired if he doesn’t like your shirt. Another fun tidbit I’ve run across is > How does this work exactly? Twitter is now private. What are the chances that options will ever be worth anything? ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1275 "2022-11-18T21:10:20Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The person who came up with “space Karen” totally is a genius. That’s the one that made me LOL. So, Musk “has” a “degree” from Wharton? Just like Trumpie. Bwahahaaaaa. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1276 "2022-11-18T21:13:41Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > How does this work exactly? Twitter is now private. What are the chances that options will ever be worth anything? Rhetorical question, right? This is Elon Musk. He just made something up and thought it sounded good. I’d be shocked if he put more than 5 seconds thought into it. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1277 "2022-11-18T21:15:19Z")
He has lied extensively about his academic history. He never was enrolled in any PhD program at Stanford, for example. This is an extensive thread about his falsehoods: > As always, I am amused about folks bringing the receipts to Twitter. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1278 "2022-11-18T21:19:56Z")
That’s kinda what I meant. Trump has no degree from Wharton (I think he took a few classes there), and neither does Musk. Sorry for the ambiguity. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1279 "2022-11-18T21:21:20Z")
It’s actually a bit murky when you dig into it. I thought he didn’t have degree from Wharton, but it looks like maybe he does? He didn’t complete his coursework, but years later Penn was motivated to give him a degree. That thread is a trip if you read through it. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442/1280 "2022-11-18T21:30:47Z")
Just to be clear: either way, this isn’t the famous graduate MBA program at Wharton, it’s the undergraduate program Trump was in. Not quite the same cachet, but the same name. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442.md?page=63) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-1/963442.md?page=65)