# Now that Elon Musk has bought Twitter - now the Pit edition (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** elon-musk\ **Created:** [August 13, 2024, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634 "2024-08-13T00:48:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/741 "2024-10-28T05:46:19Z")
> > > @timelordsoundwave.bsky.social @TLSoundwave ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/742 "2024-10-28T06:54:45Z")
Trump and Musk are openly, completely, totally fascist. Is that news to anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/743 "2024-10-28T07:35:47Z")
What should be news here, I think, is that the _reason_ they’re being openly fascist is that _it turns out to be an attractive message and a winning campaign strategy for millions and millions of people._ _That’s_ the jaw-dropper, in my view. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/744 "2024-10-28T08:45:25Z")
Nope. Trumpistas are facist. Always have been. They are not shy about that. They think antifa is a slur. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/745 "2024-10-28T09:01:30Z")
Of course they are and always have been. I’m not arguing that. I’d go further, in fact, that the US Right, in general, has had a long term objective of sabotaging democracy and installing themselves as a permanent ruling minority. They just pursued that goal quietly, with dog whistles and innuendo. What’s different now is that Trump, Musk, et al. are so freely open about it, and the reason they can be is that there are millions and millions of people who approve of it and nakedly want it. The goal used to be hinted at with winks and nudges because proto-fascist leaders didn’t feel safe saying certain things out loud, lest they suffer blowback. Now, though? There’s predictable blowback from the left, but wild enthusiasm from endless mobs of terrible, terrible people, activated by dreams of a strongman, which swamps the Left’s resistance. Without those people, the hints and coded messages would still be necessary. It’s the shocking scale of the authoritarian cult which makes the openness possible, and which is plunging daggers into the heart of American democracy. Trump and Musk and the other loyalists are holding the blades, but it’s the screaming rabble that gives them strength. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/746 "2024-10-28T09:21:25Z")
What is really shocking is the number of people on this very board who insist that the MAGAs are somehow, deep down, good people. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/747 "2024-10-28T10:06:05Z")
The ones that are still “good” are outright delusional. They’ve been genuinely brainwashed into believing that Trump was a good president who cares about America, and that the Democrats are evil villains wanting to destroy it. They don’t have to justify the bad stuff to themselves because their level of denial is so strong they don’t think it’s happening. I mean, the number of times I’ve interacted with Trump supporters insisting that he didn’t say or do something he literally said or did on camera is considerable. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/748 "2024-10-28T10:07:39Z")
I think we now are at the point where with the remarks of Kelly in hand you can call bullshit on those people. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/749 "2024-10-28T10:08:52Z")
I’m related to some of them. They are full-on cultists now. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/750 "2024-10-28T10:21:06Z")
This is a very personal issue for me, because my parents are Trump voters. They are the dictionary definition of Uninformed. They live in their cabin in the woods and neither watch nor read anything on the news. (They’re so remote, no newspaper would deliver anyway.) All they know about Trump is that he has an R by his name and he seems to make liberals upset. That is quite literally the sum total of their political information and awareness. They draw that boundary because, beyond that, they think all politicians are self-serving liars, so no attempt to show them what Trump et al. are saying and doing has any effect. They handwave everything with “politics is just noise, all politicians are bad.” They concede Trump is bad, but only in the context of their belief that everyone is equally bad. So they vote for the guy they think will keep their taxes low, full stop. They flatly dismiss all other information as either inflated or false, or otherwise meaningless. It’s total, absolute, brick-wall denial. As long as they get to hide in their forest retreat, chopping firewood and hunting game with nobody bothering them, they’ll keep their eyes closed and vote straight R. Just an impregnable refusal to engage with the world. It’s wildly frustrating. And I’m forced to distance myself because it’s an awful source of conflict. I don’t think they’re bad in the sense of being hateful, racist, violent, whatever. But they are utterly, absolutely pig-ignorant, and that’s bad enough. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/751 "2024-10-28T11:17:37Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > I have noticed that JD hasn’t been making the news much. Of course, mostly he is just talking about his own shit but his appearances all around PA in these last days are supposed to be in support of Trump. But they are really all about him. (And he is such an awkward weirdo.) I’m kind of surprised that Trump is ok with this. The man is clearly in a continuous state of delirium from overuse of stimulants, which helps hide his low energy, but deprives him of the sleep needed for normal cognitive function. And he was already a brick short of a full load to start with. One political prediction from Jan 2024 that turned out well is the idea that the Trump campaign would begin to implode in the last stretch of the campaign, because he’s at a deep fundraising disadvantage while having driving off most of the competent political hands. With Trump himself mentally checked out, and no experts at the helm, the campaign is reaching for wonder-weapons, everyone’s running off vibes, nobody exists to discipline the message or rein in the worst impulses. This is one big difference from Hitler to Trump is that Hitler at least seemed to have competent lieutenants and a self-sustaining momentum for a while. Trump on the other hand, is captain of a pirate ship full of grifters that’s stealing everything not nailed down while they’re fighting over lifeboats. He’s chasing eyeballs because that’s the only skill he’s ever had. There is no Plan B. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/752 "2024-10-28T14:37:29Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > This is a very personal issue for me, because my parents are Trump voters. > > They are the dictionary definition of Uninformed. They live in their cabin in the woods and neither watch nor read anything on the news. Right. I don’t know why some here insist on this being black and white. Two things can be true at the same time: Yes, the people wearing red caps and hooting and hollering are generally awful people and represent an ugliness in American culture that has always been there and has just been allowed to surface now under MAGA. They \*are\* the deplorables and they mostly \*don’t\* have legitimate arguments that we should listen to and find common ground. But it’s also true that a lot of Trump voters just don’t follow the news much and have reasons like “bread used to cost X, now it costs 1.2X” and have insufficient awareness of what MAGA is, and to be honest not enough knowledge of things like economics or geopolitics to understand why their single reason for voting GOP doesn’t actually make sense. (This is not to insult your parents @Cervaise, I’m of course making a broader point here and nothing you mentioned implies any misconceptions 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/753 "2024-10-28T15:19:46Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m related to some of them. > [@Cervaise](#): > > This is a very personal issue for me, because my parents are Trump voters. My wife’s cousin is a Trumper. And not just a Trumper, but he fell for (and as far as I know still believes in) actual Qanon conspiracy theories and antivax stuff, as well as other kooky things along those lines. The thing is, he’s _not_ a bad kid. He has struggled with drug addiction for years now. He really works hard at getting his life fixed around and doesn’t have a nasty bone in his body. But he’s very gullible and falls for bad ideas easily (which is probably what got him into drugs as well, he’s easily influenced). I think there are more than a few folks who are not only Trump voters, but full-on MAGA who are like this. They aren’t cartoon villains. A number of them are victims. Not totally blameless of course, and my wife’s cousin is certainly not blameless (he is stubborn in not listening to his relatives who are concerned about him) but many of them aren’t evil, and some are even good people who make bad decisions and have fallen for the lies. > [@Cervaise](#): > > It’s wildly frustrating. And I’m forced to distance myself because it’s an awful source of conflict. I don’t think they’re bad in the sense of being hateful, racist, violent, whatever. But they are utterly, absolutely pig-ignorant, and that’s bad enough. Yes, this. People like my wife’s cousin can’t be reasoned with. My parents are also Trump voters, though neither of them are full-on MAGA cultists or anything. I just can’t really talk politics with them. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/754 "2024-10-28T15:44:12Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > but many of them aren’t evil, and some are even good people who make bad decisions and have fallen for the lies. If I may… It is possible that a lot of the people in this photo just wanted cheaper gas prices and were not full on Nazis and didn’t really want to gas Jews, and start WWII, but neverthess that’s what they got. No one in that photo is blameless. We need to stop equivocating, or we could end up like that. [![](https://media.wbur.org/wp/2016/10/nurm.jpg) ](https://media.wbur.org/wp/2016/10/nurm.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/755 "2024-10-28T16:42:41Z")
I’m not equivocating. I’m just pointing out that there are those on the right actively driven by malign motives, and others who are just gullible, insecure know-nothings gaslit into full-blown cultism. One of those groups _is_ outright evil, but both groups together will make evil happen. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/756 "2024-10-28T16:50:43Z")
The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing Attributed to Edmund Burke ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/757 "2024-10-28T20:28:02Z")
Philadelphia is suing Elmo over his lottery. > **[Philadelphia DA sues Elon Musk and his super PAC over $1M sweepstakes | CNN...](https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/28/politics/elon-musk-philadelphia-lawsuit/index.html)** > > Philadelphia’s district attorney asked a state judge on Monday to shut down tech billionaire Elon Musk’s controversial $1 million giveaway to registered voters, calling it an “illegal lottery scheme.” ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/758 "2024-10-30T03:27:40Z")
Some much needed comic relief: > **[Bezos and Musk in Fierce Contest to See Who Can Lose More Customers](https://www.borowitzreport.com/p/bezos-and-musk-in-fierce-contest)** > > An industry observer said both men “have what it takes” to send customers fleeing in droves. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/759 "2024-10-30T05:00:51Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing > Attributed to Edmund Burke How are we to be sure which things are attributed to Edmund Burke? Is there a list? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634/760 "2024-10-30T06:07:39Z")
There is no practical difference looking through the fence. The only thing that defines evil is results. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-elon-musk-has-bought-twitter-now-the-pit-edition-part-2/1005634.md?page=39)