# Now that Marion Z. Bradley's child raping has come out, does it change your desire to reread her? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973 "2014-06-30T00:25:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/181 "2014-07-02T15:51:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You’d get the same overwhelming majority of non-abused if you use a rate for abused-abusers _lower than_ the background 5%. And you’re including those abused abusers in your general population 5% figure. > > BTW, the _actual_ rate of child sexual abuse is more like 15% But since your cite didn’t say how much of the 1/3 figure was subsequent _sexual_ abuse, we\* don’t\* have a cite for “rates of abuse are higher among previous victims of abuse than among the general population”. So, three things. First, this was kind of a minor point for me, correcting what I saw as a mischaracterization of someone else’s argument. I’m happy to let it drop, except that I’ve got a totally irritating negative trait of being unwilling to be mocked for dropping an argument; if you can agree that I’m letting it drop because of apathy rather than Secretly Knowing You’re Right, I’m happy to do so. (I still think I’m right). Second, if it’s important to continue this point, I still think we’re talking past each other, and perhaps you could provide a set of stats that if hypothetically correct would persuade you that I was right. I think you’re not understanding what I’m saying, but I’m not clear on what you think I’m saying, and some numbers would help. Third, again if it’s important to continue this point, it’s probably better for Great Debates. We’re agreed on the fundamental point, which is that what MZB did was appalling and inexcusable, and that it taints her work for us (although this is an easy point for me, since I never cared for her–if Daniel Abraham or China Mieville or Ursula Le Guin came out as a rapist, I’d feel the same way, but I’d be a lot more troubled by it). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/182 "2014-07-02T15:51:40Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > In addition, giving their highest award to a child rapist does not reflect well on the people who put out the World Fantasy Award. They dishonor themselves when they honor Bradley. Only if they knew of the crime at the time they bestowed the award. Were they aware of it? If you can provide information on that I would be interested in adding it to my file. > [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Gosh, I never knew child molestation was a sliding scale, here I thought it was binary: Too young (Y/N) Well, yes, as I have continually stated _it is all wrong_. Murder is wrong, too, but we have different degrees of _that_, and rape of adults can have aggravating circumstances and so forth. I’m not sure why this is an alien concept. Saying raping toddlers is worse than raping tweens does NOT mean that somehow raping _anyone_ is OK. It’s not. It never is. Raping an adult is bad, raping a teen or tween is worse, and raping a toddler is even more depraved. As the crime gets worse the penalties should get harsher and the condemnation of the crime more strident. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/183 "2014-07-02T15:51:58Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If all the accusations are true then I would say MZB is a worse piece of slime than Breen because MZB was raping toddlers. All this proves is that you haven’t read enough, if you think Breen wasn’t above molesting toddlers - the bit about him training a **3 year old girl** to strip on command, then be masturbated in front of other adults, including her parents, for instance… ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/184 "2014-07-02T15:55:35Z")
I would oppose taking back the award, I’d advocate that in every mention of the award MZB should be referred to as Marion Zimmer Bradley the child rapist. She DID get the award, it’s a matter of historical fact, just point out her shame along with her fame. Certainly, if and when I see MZB mentioned on message boards, I will not hesitate that she was a child rapist if no one has bothered to do prior to me. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/185 "2014-07-02T15:58:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So, three things. > > First, this was kind of a minor point for me, correcting what I saw as a mischaracterization of someone else’s argument. I’m happy to let it drop, except that I’ve got a totally irritating negative trait of being unwilling to be mocked for dropping an argument; if you can agree that I’m letting it drop because of apathy rather than Secretly Knowing You’re Right, I’m happy to do so. (I still think I’m right). 🙂 I’m cool with that. > [@](#): > > Second, if it’s important to continue this point, I still think we’re talking past each other, and perhaps you could provide a set of stats that if hypothetically correct would persuade you that I was right. I think you’re not understanding what I’m saying, but I’m not clear on what you think I’m saying, and some numbers would help. You may be right. I’m cool with letting it go. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/186 "2014-07-02T15:59:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Only if they knew of the crime at the time they bestowed the award. Were they aware of it? If you can provide information on that I would be interested in adding it to my file. I doubt they were unaware of the Breen-side of it. It was, as they say, common knowledge in those circles. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/187 "2014-07-02T16:01:45Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > She DID get the award, it’s a matter of historical fact But awards get revoked all the time, too, and the reasons for it are noted. This isn’t some milestone, like a world record or the like (although those get revoked all the time too), this is a pat on the back from a genre group. Backs can be unpatted easily enough. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/188 "2014-07-02T16:01:55Z")
Edit: just saw your last post, but I was already pulling up these cites, and I think they’re interesting. I’ll let it go now, although if you want to respond to these cites, I’ll let it go after your response :). Looking for stats, I find [this](http://www.victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/statistics-on-perpetrators-of-csa): > [@](#): > > 40-80% of juvenile sex offenders have themselves been victims of sexual abuse There’s also [this](http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/179/6/482.long) > [@](#): > > Results Among 747 males the risk of being a perpetrator was positively correlated with reported sexual abuse victim experiences. The overall rate of having been a victim was 35% for perpetrators and 11% for non-perpetrators. Of the 96 females, 43% had been victims but only one was a perpetrator. A high percentage of male subjects abused in childhood by a female relative became perpetrators. Having been a victim was a strong predictor of becoming a perpetrator, as was an index of parental loss in childhood. > > Conclusions The data support the notion of a victim-to-victimiser cycle in a minority of male perpetrators but not among the female victims studied. Sexual abuse by a female in childhood may be a risk factor for a cycle of abuse in males. Note that the latter study suggest there’s “little empirical evidence” for a “cycle of abuse.” They follow that up by saying, "Hence, it is of considerable social, clinical and theoretical importance to ascertain to what extent perpetrators of sexual abuse have themselves been victims; also, if there is a link, to explore the underlying psychodynamics. " IOW, they’re looking for that evidence. As I now understand it, the evidence for the cycle of abuse is far from airtight, but what is clear is that male victims of child sexual abuse commit abuse at a higher rate than the general population (albeit still a minority of victims commit the abuse, it should be repeated). ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/189 "2014-07-02T16:02:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t form my opinions based on what’s popular, I form them by looking into things and drawing my own conclusions. I don’t have a problem with being in the minority on an issue. You go grrrl. You take your brave stance in favor of distinguishing levels of rapey badness based on how old a person looks. You’re like Rosa Parks! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/190 "2014-07-02T16:03:02Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Only if they knew of the crime at the time they bestowed the award. Were they aware of it? If you can provide information on that I would be interested in adding it to my file. I have no idea whether they knew of MZB’s child rape at the time, my point is, to the extent that they still simply honor her, they are committing a shameful act. It’s like saying nice things about Adolf Hitler because he loved dogs. MZB wrote fantasies a lot of people enjoyed, as I said before, let her award stand, but also note that she was a child rapist as well. You cannot simple honor her any more, given the horror of her crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/191 "2014-07-02T16:05:58Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Specifically about MZB, the commercial/mass market will exact its punishment such as it may be. Publishers/retailers/distributors/producers are not in the business of standing up to a justifiably outraged public. Surely we will not be likely to see any new movies/SyFy miniseries/graphic novels being greenlighted any time soon with the title: “_Marion Zimmer Bradley’s **Darkover** _”. Reprints and reeditions will become fewer and farther between, reading clubs will start to stay away. Entirely to be expected and justified. I stopped by B&N about a week ago, and [this](http://www.amazon.com/Children-Kings-Darkover-Novel/dp/0756408547/ref=sr_1_1_title_1_mas?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1404316859&sr=1-1&keywords=the+children+of+kings+darkover) was being displayed among the other new mass market paperbacks. I had no idea there were still new Darkover books being written and sold, but there are. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/192 "2014-07-02T16:06:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > But awards get revoked all the time, too, and the reasons for it are noted. This isn’t some milestone, like a world record or the like (although those get revoked all the time too), this is a pat on the back from a genre group. Backs can be unpatted easily enough. I do not like rewriting history. It happened, let it stand. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/193 "2014-07-02T16:07:26Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There are people with public hair at the age of 10. In fact, I was one of them. If you want TMI at the age of ten I was physically mature to the point that I could have become pregnant and had a child by the age of 11 Was this really necessary to post to make your point? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/194 "2014-07-02T16:08:12Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I do not like rewriting history. It happened, let it stand. How is that rewriting history? They don’t need to deny that the award was given; all they need to do is to add the word “revoked” beside the award, along with a brief explanation and/or a link to a long explanation for the revocation. I think it’d be a great idea. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/195 "2014-07-02T16:10:19Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > We have a serious problem in our society with people being accused of something then tried and convicted in the media with no recourse if they in fact turn out to be innocent. This has been going on for some time. You are arguing that there’s a serious problem with false rape claims? If a woman tells you she’s been raped, you respond by asking for collaborating witnesses? I’m not talking about court cases here, just your usual response to claims of sexual abuse. You’ve tied yourself up in utterly awful knots in a case you clearly didn’t look into all that thoroughly. I’m a complete stranger to the sci-fi realm and I found all the relevant documents with no problem. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/196 "2014-07-02T16:11:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Edit: just saw your last post, but I was already pulling up these cites, and I think they’re interesting. I’ll let it go now, although if you want to respond to these cites, I’ll let it go after your response :). I’m happier with those cites, but just to note that we’ve been discussing adult abusers of kids, so the rates for juvenile sex offenders don’t signify too much - there may be drop-off factors. But the second cite proves your point better. I think more studies need to be done to say for sure, though. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/197 "2014-07-02T16:13:34Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I do not like rewriting history. It happened, let it stand. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > How is that rewriting history? They don’t need to deny that the award was given; all they need to do is to add the word “revoked” beside the award, along with a brief explanation and/or a link to a long explanation for the revocation. I think it’d be a great idea. What **LHoD** said… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/198 "2014-07-02T16:18:03Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No-one’s said anything about scrubbing out MZB’s history. Just taking back an award. Don’t make up shit I didn’t say.The award is for “Lifetime Achievement in Fantasy”. As it stands now, she’s done the field more harm than good. Leaving aside many of Breen’s victims were fen, what do you think the general public’s attitude is going to be towards transgressive feminist SF now? Like NAMBLA-defending Delany, she does more harm than good, IMO. I still read and enjoy Delany’s work, too, although I am also aware of his views that I find objectionable. > [@](#): > > Taking back a (posthumous) award is not “erasing” anyone. Especially if you record the take-back and the reasons for it. **It’s the exact opposite of that.** All you’re doing is (rightfully) replacing notoriety for fame OK, I can agree to that IF the it’s noted the award was granted for her work AND why it was revoked. It preserves the truth. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Reprints and reeditions will become fewer and farther between, reading clubs will start to stay away. So long as the works continue to remain available for those who want to read them I can live with their diminished popularity. I do object to the notion that liking a work of fiction somehow calls the _reader’s_ morality into question. > [@](#): > > Works stand by themselves. But, knowing the creator’s backstory \*\*\*does \*\*\*help one to make an \*\*\*informed \*\*\*evaluation of the work. I myself am not absolutist about it, I will not feel _personally_ polluted by a piece of work because I learned the creator was a child rapist/girlfriend-shooter/heroin dealer/card-carrying Nazi/KKK official. But I might take a second look at what subtext may be there. I might also think such things as : “Jeez, what a waste of talent on scum like this”; “OK so that passage was already creepy; now it’s revoltingly shameless” ; “hope you slept well your last 40 years, Mr. I-did-what-I-had-to?” ; “holy smokes, how it must have been to share the studio with such an utter sleazebag and still produce something this good” ; “huh… wait, this supremacist/segregationist writes about living in peace with the Indians out in the prairie?” Nothing wrong with analyzing or discussing any of that. > [@](#): > > It is not unknown for awards or honours to be retroactively vacated if something is learned about the awardee that, had it be known earlier, would have resulted in the award or honour being withdrawn or not granted at all to start with (Where’s the Joe Paterno statue now? What’s his won/lost record on the official books?). **Not all awards or honours have a provision in place contemplating that but it’s not unreasonable to seek such redress, and if there is the procedure for it, it would not be inappropriate to withdraw the one in discussion.** And that’s why I asked if there’s a morality requirement for the Fantasy award. Maybe there should be, for “lifetime achievement awards”, so if someone has done more harm than good overall they won’t be handed out to such people. If this incident makes such a caveat routine for such awards then that is some tiny particle of improvement to come out of the whole swamp. > [@](#): > > Who’s profiting by the continued revenue from the creator’s work, _that_ is a matter for civil litigation. If MZB’s partner and not her descendants get to profit from her work that strikes me as a continuing moral assault. Me, too. But it’s up to the Greyland siblings to pursue that or not. I was quite pleased when the rights and royalties from OJ Simpson’s most recent book was awarded to the Goldman family. Of course, there is now the on-going disupte between the Goldmans and the Browns over whether to purse movie/TV rights in attempt to extract more out of those rights which is yet another illustration of how a crime causes continuing pain and misery down the line. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/199 "2014-07-02T16:18:40Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I doubt they were unaware of the Breen-side of it. It was, as they say, common knowledge in those circles. I realize that you probably know this, MrDibble, but for the benefit of the “Hey, if they look old enough, rape’s just not that big of a thing–besides MZB is totes this great writer” contingent It was common knowledge in 1963–enough so that [Breen was banned from a convention because he’d already molested children there in previous years](http://deirdre.net/breendoggle-documentation-now-on-a-wiki/) (Thanks in part due to MZB’s lobbying, he was reinstated) The following was published the year _before_ Bradley chose to marry Breen (although they were involved) so…it’s not like she found herself surprised by his kiddie raping years after they were wed. From the original 1963 “The Great Breen Boondoggle” letter: (Warning: gross) > [@1963 original document](#): > > The second cause was Walter’s sex play with 3-year old P———– —————-. He had her trained up to the point where she would take off her clothes the minute she saw him. He would then “rub her down” and all that. I recall one occasion — a fairly large gathering at the Nelsons — in which he also used a pencil, rubbing the eraser back and forth in the general area of the vagina, not quite masturbating her. (Walter is incredible.) Many people were somewhat displeased by this — most particularly her parents. No one thought he was actually psychologically damaging P——— (she being so young) — obviously —– and —- would have interfered if they thought he had been — but the spectacle was not thought to be aesthetically pleasing. Years later Walter found out about the reaction and said, “But why didn’t somebody say something! I wouldn’t have dreamed of doing it if I’d thought someone _objected._” Luckily, Bradley was there to stand by her man and support him in his desire for fresh meat and to help to force the convention to let him come anyway. Whatta woman! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/200 "2014-07-02T16:20:51Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I would oppose taking back the award, I’d advocate that in every mention of the award MZB should be referred to as Marion Zimmer Bradley the child rapist. She DID get the award, it’s a matter of historical fact, just point out her shame along with her fame. Certainly, if and when I see MZB mentioned on message boards, I will not hesitate that she was a child rapist if no one has bothered to do prior to me. Just for the record I’m OK with that. Presumably, you would also be able to provide factual evidence in case anyone asks for it as well. I think having the fame and shame travel in tandem would be a good tactic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973.md?page=11)