# Now that Marion Z. Bradley's child raping has come out, does it change your desire to reread her? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973 "2014-06-30T00:25:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/21 "2014-06-30T05:31:29Z")
Don’t believe I’ve ever read anything by her. But if I had, no it wouldn’t. I don’t care whether the authors, directors, actors, songwriters, producers, etc., etc., are good people when deciding what I’m going to watch, read, listen to, etc., etc. Yes, it shapes what I think of them as people but not much what I think of their work. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/22 "2014-06-30T05:51:38Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I think people who are now saying “oh, I’d _never_ re-read her books now that I know about all this stuff from her personal life” are a bit… puzzling to me. It’s not terribly rational, I’ll grant. And it is easy for me to say, because I’ve read much of the Darkover\* oeuvre already and really have no burning desire to revisit them anyway. But I _think_ it would just feel a little odd to me to pick them up again if she were still around. But maybe not - I’m sorta hypothesizing here, because she is long dead and again, not interested anyway. - Oddly enough though I’ve plowed through…hmmm…~15 of her novels through about 1982 back in my teenage years, I never read Mists of Avalon or its sequels which seems to be her signature book for a lot of folks. But I never really had a desire to - Mary Stewart aside, I’m not a huge Arthurian buff. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/23 "2014-06-30T05:56:44Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [Similar thread in Great Debates](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=722500), FYI. I’ll just keep saying what I want to in that thread, no sense repeating it here. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/24 "2014-06-30T06:04:25Z")
If she were alive, I probably wouldn’t…but I’m not going to vet dead people. On a similar note, in film and TV, I’m absolutely able to seperate the art and the actor. Naked Gun isn’t one bit less funny for having OJ. Mel Gibson is still great in The Road Warrior… ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/25 "2014-06-30T07:42:03Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I think people who are now saying “oh, I’d _never_ re-read her books now that I know about all this stuff from her personal life” are a bit… puzzling to me. You were OK with all the raping of boys, immature pre-adolescent girls being married off to old men, using men and women as breeding stock for living weapons, literal women in chains, marriage by abduction, neutering of people to act as power generators and relay stations UNTIL you found out about Breen and MZB’s personal life? > > I don’t see where her personal failures (even crimes) change anything about her novels. The separation of fiction from reality is essential for such stories. It’s the difference between watching _The Terminator_ by James Cameron and _The Terminator_ by Johnny The Serial Killer. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/26 "2014-06-30T07:46:50Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > \*The kids were in the 3-14 range, so let’s not degenerate into one of those nitpicky argumements so common here about “ephebophile” ( or “pedophile” or what-the-fuck-ever silly term is in vogue. But there is a differnce between ephebphile and pedophile, one is postpubescent and one is prepubescent. And since I never actually liked her writing, reading her or not reading her is a nonissue to me. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/27 "2014-06-30T12:14:10Z")
I’ve never had any interest in reading Bradley’s works, but this new knowledge actually makes me more curious to read them and see whether there’s any subtext there that this new information would bring to light. For that matter, I’m reading the transcript of her deposition right now, and I just came across this exchange; > [@](#): > > Q. Did you ever hear a report from Moira [Victim X] was found in Walter’s bed? > > A. No, I didn’t. I don’t think Moira knew [Victim X] from Adams or Fox. > > MR. WALKER (Bradley’s lawyer): I would like to remind you here of an agreement we had. > > MR. DOLAN (the questioner): I know about it. I’m not going there. > > MR. WALKER: Okay. > > MR. DOLAN: I’m going to be very respectful of that. I’m going to be very respectful of her. > > MR. WALKER: Okay. I can only speculate at the agreement they mention, but in hindsight, it almost sounds like Dolan and Walker knew of allegations of sexual misconduct involving Moira and chose not to address it. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/28 "2014-06-30T12:29:00Z")
Up until a couple of weeks ago, I didn’t even know the name of her husband. Now I know it, I know he was a pedophile and that she enabled it, and that she was also a pedophile. I’ve read and reread many of the Darkover books; I own most of them. I like them. And at this point, I just don’t know what to do with my repugnance for her actions, and my enjoyment of her books. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/29 "2014-06-30T12:40:10Z")
I didn’t particularly care for either of the books of hers I’ve read, but if I had, I don’t think it would change my interest in re-reading them. She is dead and not going to profit by any books of hers I might buy, after all, and I read (and teach) authors all the time who have done all kinds of shitty things. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/30 "2014-06-30T12:48:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I can only speculate at the agreement they mention, but in hindsight, it almost sounds like Dolan and Walker knew of allegations of sexual misconduct involving Moira and chose not to address it. Amending my statement to include a snippet further down in the text of the deposition; > [@](#): > > Q. Ms. Zimmer Bradley, we’re going forward with your deposition today based upon the limitations that have been imposed by your doctors and your counsel; so we will > have no more than one hour today of deposition. Do you understand that? > > A. Yes, I do. Thank you. > > Q. I’ve also agreed with your counsel not to delve into particular areas during this session of your deposition. Do you understand that? > > A. Well, I think I know what you mean. > > Q. Okay. I will not be asking any questions about your relationship with your daughter. Do you understand that? > > A. Yes. > > Q. I reserve my right to do so at a future date; okay? > > A. Okay. Honestly, the implication that the “relationship” between Bradley and her daughter was known and ignored disturbs me more than anything else I’ve read thus far. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/31 "2014-06-30T12:52:18Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > The separation of fiction from reality is essential for such stories. It’s the difference between watching _The Terminator_ by James Cameron and _The Terminator_ by Johnny The Serial Killer. That’s my point - her novels are _fiction_, they’re not a description of reality. When evaluating a novel it doesn’t get better if the author is a saint, and it doesn’t get worse if the author is a sinner, it’s the same book either way. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/32 "2014-06-30T12:57:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Honestly, the implication that the “relationship” between Bradley and her daughter was known and ignored disturbs me more than anything else I’ve read thus far. That doesn’t strike me as ignored - if it had been ignored it never would have been mentioned. The deposition was regarding the actions of Breen, not MZB, and bringing in something about her daughter might have been regarded as a distraction in that particular context. Or maybe something else, since I wasn’t there and I’m not privy to all that went on. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/33 "2014-06-30T13:12:22Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > When evaluating a novel it doesn’t get better if the author is a saint, and it doesn’t get worse if the author is a sinner, it’s the same book either way. There are too many good novels out there by people who aren’t evil childrapers for me to waste my time with ones who are. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/34 "2014-06-30T13:26:24Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > She is dead and not going to profit by any books of hers I might buy, after all If that is actually a concern, you should know that Lisa Waters, the only person who does profit from her sales nowadays, _also_ covered up for the abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/35 "2014-06-30T13:39:39Z")
I won’t reread her books mainly because the last time I read _Mists of Avalon_ the man-hating got on my nerves too much. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/36 "2014-06-30T14:06:08Z")
I haven’t read Bradley and this doesn’t really affect my desire to read her, since it never interested me enough to want to read it in the first place. I never met her, either, though I did publish a story in her magazine (but she was the publisher, not the editor, so I didn’t correspond). I saw her at one convention I attended, but never got to talk to her.\* I do know a lot of people who respected her a lot, but no one knew anything like this was going on. Indeed, her daughter’s comments shocked everyone who knew her. Marion was very helpful to new writers (her magazine never made any money, but she funded it out of pocket to give authors a place to sell their work). \*I did know her brother, Paul Edwin Zimmer, who was a pretty good author himself. Sadly, he died of a massive heart attack while attending our convention. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/37 "2014-06-30T14:26:35Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Marion was very helpful to new writers (her magazine never made any money, but she funded it out of pocket to give authors a place to sell their work). And as a convenient place to [source ghostwriters](http://fanlore.org/wiki/Marion_Zimmer_Bradley_Fanfiction_Controversy#Ghostwriters_and_Collaborators) for herself, of course. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/38 "2014-06-30T14:35:43Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > MZB. Oh, please. The idea of me protecting little [Victim X], good heavens. Anyone who can systematically rape their own daughter and then say this about a _10 year old_, deserves nothing from me except a quick fetching of the torches and pitchforks. What a vile, disgusting fuck. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > There are too many good novels out there by people who aren’t evil childrapers for me to waste my time with ones who are. Agreed. I don’t care how much pleasure someone brings me or how much I just wanna do X, it’s just not enough to take the hit to my own morality to seek them out for whatever purpose _after_ I know they’re a complete waste of a human. I mentioned Victor Salvathe other thread. I love horror movies, so much so that there’s very little, ever, that I haven’t seen. With that in mind, coming across a scary film that’s good can be rare. So, long ago, I was thrilled to find something inventive from a director if never heard of. Then I discovered that he’d routinely molested his 12 year old lead over the course of four years, who worked on an early project with him, and filmed it. He served 15 months in prison for his crimes and there’s talk that the young man has had serious problems (he left showbiz because of it) as a consequence. And although I truly would enjoy his work, I don’t do it. The underlying themes are gross, what it makes me feel like I’d be tolerating (or worse, supporting) isn’t worth it and something so unnecessary to my life (I mean, even as much as I love them, I’ll go on living just fine without the horror movies of just one director) wouldn’t be worth the trade-off of the hit I’d feel I’d take ethically. Because if I did, his stuff would undoubtedly still be something I occasionally talked about, put on a list somewhere, spent money on in such a way that came across as tolerating such inhuman behavior. Nope, won’t do it and I’ll survive just fine. Just like I do without Chik-fil-A (despite salivating over their breakfast burritos), Chris Brown or shopping at Hobby Lobby (who, with coupon, has the best craft prices in town). ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/39 "2014-06-30T15:17:41Z")
MZB had already alienated me, first by the approval given to scapegoating men in the first Darkover novel, second by being incredibly rude in person at a convention. Her actual writing was so nasty, I stopped reading it very quickly. And she, herself, was a bit of an ogre. These new revelations are shocking and surprising, however: I thought she was morally and ethically much better than this. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/40 "2014-06-30T15:21:24Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > . . . \*I did know her brother, Paul Edwin Zimmer, who was a pretty good author himself. Sadly, he died of a massive heart attack while attending our convention. I met him over a cigarette… It was at a fantasy convention, and he refused to put out his cigarette, even in a non-smoking auditorium, even when asked. The non-smokers involved didn’t press the point, as it would have meant calling hotel security. We didn’t care enough to escalate it that far. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973.md?page=3)