# Now that Marion Z. Bradley's child raping has come out, does it change your desire to reread her? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973 "2014-06-30T00:25:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/381 "2014-07-06T22:53:28Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Context, Bricker, _context_. In a GD thread about rape and various degrees of severity, sure… have at it. In a thread about a real person who was really raped and is living today **and very likely to find the thread** , not so much. If I thought that was remotely true, it might affect my attitude. It would be insane to treat every SDMB thread about a famous person as if that famous person might actually come into the thread and have their feelings hurt or affected > [@](#): > > You are both falling right into line like little puppets though, giving life to a point that was only raised to undermine the severity of a sexual assault in the hopes that others would say “Gee, she does have a point about that even if it doesn’t exactly apply in this situation.” (a) I obviously disagree (b) Any time you ever respond to anything remotely controversial on the SDMB there’s some chance that you’re getting trolled. That’s a fact of the internet. I’d rather occasionally get trolled then spend my life refusing to respond to posts about topics that catch my eye until I’m utterly convinced of everyone’s 100% sincerity (c) If I am getting trolled by Broomstick frankly the reason is not because I’m naive it’s because so many other people in this thread responded with such hyperbole and such invective. If in fact she’s trolling, and you’d all just ignored her, I would never have had any urge to post in this thread at all. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/382 "2014-07-06T23:19:49Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What, preferring a discussion about the actual topic, rather than a diversion into irrelevant minutiae? No, that’s perfectly defensible (if not _your_ preferred kind of discussion, as we all know) Yeah, I withdraw the prostitute/nun thing. I know 3 year old and 10 year old kids. None of whom even have fucking jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/383 "2014-07-06T23:30:05Z")
FFS - so we’ve given up completely on the OP now? Maybe y’all could start a new thread on the “rapeyness” of particular types of assaults and victims. Slap a big ol’ “trigger” warning in the title and go off and debate to your hearts’ content whether nuns in bars are less “raped” than housewives at home. What if they are prostitutes on their night off, watching the kids - what then? Who is more “wronged”? Go watch “The Accused” or something. This has turned into an outstandingly stupid and offensive conversation. Yes, the criminal justice code most places has degrees, but rape is wrong. Child molestation is wrong. No matter who does it, or why. Just wrong. So, back to the OP, which raises interesting questions that may some day get discussed on the SDMB, will I continue to read this author knowing her criminal history? No. Have I read work, or watched movies, by artists with skeletons in the closet? Undoubtedly. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose. As a Historian by training, I have studied works (literature and art) by people that I would consider morally reprehensible. But that is part of what the job was - you study the pieces left behind to try and understand the people and their stories. In my free time, as I think others have noted, I prefer not to knowingly dabble in the muck. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/384 "2014-07-07T00:32:59Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > And why it’s not better to ask the person who posited the point of fact as an argument why they think it IS relevant. Fine, here you go…the point of fact at issue is that it’s more normal/less deviant to be attracted to post-pubescent people than pre-pubescent people. OK, granted. True. Are we good now to discuss the actual topic? Can we discuss why in god’s name this is supposed to be a relevant point? Can we discuss what the odds are that any of the children involved are one of the 1 in a million ten year olds who could pass for somone in their late teens? Can we discuss why anyone would conjecture that this extremely unlikely scenario may be playing into this situation? Because now that we’ve “fought ignorance” I’d really like to fight some sheer idiocy. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Because I don’t think Broomstick WAS particularly persistently trying to bring up that point. The conversation wandered over to a kind of weird place, Broomstick made a tangential observation, and then got insanely piled on, and some of the piling on seemed to me to be both bizarrely uncalled for and clearly wrong. So I interjected, which continued the hijack. Hey, it happens, hijacks take on a life of their own. > [@Crazyhorse](#): > > The irony is that Broomstick was obviously concern trolling in the first place. She cannot possibly be that stupid and obtuse (although I don’t reach that decision easily as she is certainly somewhat stupid and obtuse) But as far as I know you and Max don’t usually troll even if your opinions might cause tempers to flare. Y’all are attributing to malice what can be explained by narcissism. It is just an inherent quality of Broomstick that she really enjoys telling personal anecdotes about herself, especially about any quality about herself she considers unusual. She has done this for years–in a thread about skin, she’ll post about her sensitivities to makeup. In a thread about food, she will post about her allergies, in a thread about poverty, small claims court, the rust belt, shoe making, etc. etc., this is just what she does. If someone mentions that a ten year old is a child, she’s going to mention that she had started her period by then, because she evaluates everything through the lens of her own experience, and thinks that her own personal experience is always relevant and interesting. You’ve met this person at parties, I don’t know why it’s hard to recognize her here. It was really, really tone deaf in this instance, and Broomstick being Broomstick, she had to double down and try to somehow make it relevant, which lead to this really horrific train wreck. But whatever her faults, she’s not specifically trying to, I don’t know, subversively soften us up on child sex abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/385 "2014-07-07T01:29:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > . . . Why is it impossible to compare two acts of depravity and evil and conclude that while both are despicable, one is worse than the other? What law of philosophy or nature forbids this comparison? I don’t understand it, and I don’t like it. I tossed in an opinion along those lines, but quickly backed out when I saw that it was untenable in this thread. My opinion is that, yes, obviously, some horrors are worse than others. And our laws reflect this, by and large, in sentencing. Maybe it’s just the phrasing. We would probably all agree that murder is worse than assault and battery…but if someone said, “Assault and battery is not as bad as murder,” it sounds a little off. The phrase “not as bad” may cause an emotional reaction, as if it were making an excuse for it. Some people’s minds may connote “not as bad” with “not bad.” ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/386 "2014-07-07T02:55:28Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > My opinion is that, yes, obviously, some horrors are worse than others. Gee, no shit Sherlock. Thanks to you, Max and Bricker for helping us all understand that elusive concept. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Maybe it’s just the phrasing. We would probably all agree that murder is worse than assault and battery…but if someone said, “Assault and battery is not as bad as murder,” it sounds a little off. The phrase “not as bad” may cause an emotional reaction, as if it were making an excuse for it. Some people’s minds may connote “not as bad” with “not bad.” It’s not even that. Again, it’s context primarily, with an additional degree of “what the fuck?” in almost any context when you get down into trying to differentiate the severity of one child rape from another based on the physical appearance of the child. Most every culture on earth has drawn a distinct line between all the horrible shit people can do on one side, and child rape on the other. Once you get down below that line, degrees of horribleness only exist in the most technical, academic, and generally irrelevant way. Only in the most narrow and focused discussion about the degrees of disgusting acts would it be germane. Even worse is to then defend the point over and over again when people are saying “Please just STFU” - not because they don’t understand the picayune point, but because it is something so obvious and irrelevant that even bringing it up in the context that it is being brought up in is honestly disgusting. This is really simple. Feeling the need to point out that some ten year olds have pubic hair so it is a little better to want to rape them compared to less mature victims, in this context especially but in almost any context, is stupid and irrelevant, and is either trolling or the most intense case of socially inept tone deafness that one could ever imagine. Calling someone out for it and asking them shut up is quite acceptable. And choosing the moment to take a stand and ‘educate’ everyone who you somehow must think are too stupid to even understand that there are degrees of horrible, when that isn’t what they were bitching about, is just adding insult to injury so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/387 "2014-07-07T02:59:10Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Y’all are attributing to malice what can be explained by narcissism. It is just an inherent quality of Broomstick that she really enjoys telling personal anecdotes about herself, especially about any quality about herself she considers unusual. She has done this for years–in a thread about skin, she’ll post about her sensitivities to makeup. In a thread about food, she will post about her allergies, in a thread about poverty, small claims court, the rust belt, shoe making, etc. etc., this is just what she does. If someone mentions that a ten year old is a child, she’s going to mention that she had started her period by then, because she evaluates everything through the lens of her own experience, and thinks that her own personal experience is always relevant and interesting. You’ve met this person at parties, I don’t know why it’s hard to recognize her here. It was really, really tone deaf in this instance, and Broomstick being Broomstick, she had to double down and try to somehow make it relevant, which lead to this really horrific train wreck. But whatever her faults, she’s not specifically trying to, I don’t know, subversively soften us up on child sex abuse. I understand. But she could still make it all about her and maybe even sneak brag about what an early bloomer she was without using the point to try to lessen the severity with which society should view some child rapes versus others. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/388 "2014-07-07T04:27:03Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Gee, no shit Sherlock. Thanks to you, Max and Bricker for helping us all understand that elusive concept. Then…you agree with it? Cool. That’s the end of the debate, then, right? ETA: As little as it appeals to me to agree with **Bricker** , even he is right now and then. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/389 "2014-07-07T04:27:45Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Feeling the need to point out that some ten year olds have pubic hair so it is a little better to want to rape them compared to less mature victims, in this context especially but in almost any context, is stupid and irrelevant, and is either trolling or the most intense case of socially inept tone deafness that one could ever imagine. Calling someone out for it and asking them shut up is quite acceptable. I see where you’re coming from. But there’s a difference between responding to something tone deaf by saying “hey, that was really insensitive and irrelevant” vs “no, there is NO difference there are NO gray areas” or for that matter “you are such an awful person that every time I read your posts I want to vomit”. Also, you seem to think that what happened was that someone said “hey, MZB’s husband raped 10-year-olds” and then Broomstick suddenly popped up with “well, some 10-year-olds have pubic hair so it really wasn’t that bad”. I tried to go back in and trace exactly where that idea first came up in the thread, and Fenris was actually the first one to use the word “pubic”, in post 145, which Broomstick responds to in post 148 with her now-infamous claims about herself. This is after 10+ posts from Broomstick already in the thread, so it’s not something that she just jumped in and whipped out. (I _think_ that that precise topic only came up because there was a discussion of a scene in one of MZB’s books in which an older man raped an adolescent boy, and there was some question as to how comparable to Breen’s crimes that was…) So, in post 148, what is this stirring defense of child rape that she’s offering, how is she supporting MZB and her husband? Well, she does say: “I don’t think raping a 10 year old is any way acceptable, but it is marginally less horrific than, say, raping a three year old. At least to me.” So… (1) in no way acceptable, (2) marginally less horrific than raping a 3-year-old, and (3) she acknowledges that that’s just her position. So THAT is the trolling attention-whoring narcissistic defending-MZB-at-all-costs trying-to-diminish-the-gravity-of-what-was-done post that got the SDMB into such an uproar? I guess she manipulated Fenris into bringing up pubic hair so that her trolling opportunity would present itself? ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/390 "2014-07-07T06:29:25Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I see where you’re coming from. But there’s a difference between responding to something tone deaf by saying “hey, that was really insensitive and irrelevant” vs “no, there is NO difference there are NO gray areas” or for that matter “you are such an awful person that every time I read your posts I want to vomit”. This is the Pit. People have been wanting to vomit over Broomstick’s posts around here for a long time. Here, they can say so, so maybe they don’t feel any need to first politely explain why she’s wrong. But again that isn’t the point, you’re still completely missing it. The point is that by merely bringing up a question about the level of severity of some child rapes, not what she had to say about it, but merely injecting the topic into the context of the thread at all, that could only be done with a motive of diluting the conversation about the rapist/author with some irrelevant factoid about sexual development in children. As if had that been the case, which it may or may not have been, we’ll never know, then maybe society should have a kinder view of her favorite author. It’s called concern trolling. That is different than trolling. Look it up if you aren’t familiar with the term. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I tried to go back in and trace exactly where that idea first came up in the thread, and Fenris was actually the first one to use the word “pubic”, in post 145, which Broomstick responds to in post 148 with her now-infamous claims about herself. This is after 10+ posts from Broomstick already in the thread, so it’s not something that she just jumped in and whipped out. (I _think_ that that precise topic only came up because there was a discussion of a scene in one of MZB’s books in which an older man raped an adolescent boy, and there was some question as to how comparable to Breen’s crimes that was…) Right. Since this is all actually right here in the thread it isn’t hard to review: Fenris mentioned pubes because in post #112 Broomstick first brought out the “You know, there are different kinds of child rape!” factoid. Here she is displaying her astounding ability to distinguish between raping a mature looking child and raping an immature looking child, while correcting a poster for referring to a scene in a book involving the rape of an adolescent as a depiction of pedophilia. And here she first stated her incorrect belief (rationalization?) that it must have been something like that going on with the real rapes too. > [@Broomstick](#): > > I have read the entire Darkover series of novels, most of them more than once. The Ardais/Syrtis scenario is the only one “pedo” I recall (which, strictly speaking, was ephebophilliac. Which fits more in line with Breen’s offenses than strictly pedophillia). To that, Fenris replied with a summary of the cites that Broomstick refused to read, which stated the child was ten. > [@Fenris](#): > > You don’t actually _read_ the cites presented, do you? I don’t mean the links, I mean, like in my OP where I point out that one of the children that Breen raped (for three solid years) and that MZB point-blank admits to covering up was ten (10) years old. Later, when BS complained about Fenris ‘exhorting’ her to read the cites since she cleary didn’t know the facts of the case: > [@Broomstick](#): > > Sorry - granted, it wasn’t you who kept exhorting me to read the cites in the OP, presuming I hadn’t. That was **Fenris**. He replied: > [@Fenris](#): > > Since you were making the bullshit hairsplitting distinction between someone who rapes a boy 30 seconds before he grows his first pubic hair and 30 seconds after, it was telling that you were unaware that Victim X was 10 years old. And to this… BS replied: > [@Broomstick](#): > > There are people with public hair at the age of 10… > I don’t think raping a 10 year old is any way acceptable, but it is marginally less horrific than, say, raping a three year old. A resounding WTF? ensued. And all but a few extremely tone deaf individuals realized she was either trolling or concern trolling. In this case the latter would be far creepier than the former. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/391 "2014-07-07T07:24:24Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > As a Historian by training, I have studied works (literature and art) by people that I would consider morally reprehensible. But that is part of what the job was - you study the pieces left behind to try and understand the people and their stories. There’s definitely a distinct difference between things you do for academic work, and things you do for fun. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/392 "2014-07-07T07:35:55Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I tried to go back in and trace exactly where that idea first came up in the thread, and Fenris was actually the first one to use the word “pubic”, in post 145 **Fenris** was just highlighting the implications of **Broomstick** ’s distinguishing between paedophiles and ephebophiles. _She_ brought the subject up first in that exchange, not **Fenris**. Focusing on the word “pubic” is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/393 "2014-07-07T15:41:49Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > **Fenris** was just highlighting the implications of **Broomstick** ’s distinguishing between paedophiles and ephebophiles. _She_ brought the subject up first in that exchange, not **Fenris**. Focusing on the word “pubic” is irrelevant. My point on reviewing the thread was to point out that what happened was NOT what was frequently later described. For instance, this from **Tamerlane** (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > Technically, I think she is wrong - there are certainly different levels of bad possible, but personally in this context there is not a farthings worth of difference to me between 3 and 10, nor do I believe pubescent-looking ten-year olds abound. I’ve seen a few twelve year-olds that can pass ( a few ), but ten have got to be as rare as albino hummingbirds. I don’t doubt they exist at all, but it’s a fucking silly argument to **hang your hat on**. As far as I can tell, Broomstick brought up pedophilia vs ebebophilia once in connection to MZB’s husband, but with no explicit attempt to use that to downplay his guilt, and certainly no connection to HER guilt (although some discussion of how much pedophilia her BOOKS contained) (post 112). Then no one mentions the distinction for a while, and Broomstick, the constantly-defending-MZB-at-all-costs pedophilia-denier, says things like > [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, what Breen and MZB did is reprehensible. Breen was convicted and died in jail. Perhaps, even probably, MZB should have been as well, but she wasn’t and since she’s dead that will never happen. I fully support any victims coming forward and telling their story. I will verbally smack down anyone even implying those victims shouldn’t speak up or “damage” their reputation. and a bunch of other stuff that has to do with accusation-vs-proof but has nothing to do with pedo- vs. ebebophilia. Then comes post 145: > [@Fenris](#): > > Since you were making the bullshit hairsplitting distinction between someone who rapes a boy 30 seconds before he grows his first pubic hair and 30 seconds after, it was telling that you were unaware that Victim X was 10 years old. and things go to hell. My point is, Broomstick did NOT bring that distinction up repeatedly. She did not hang her hat on it. She did not generally use it to argue for lenience or understanding for MZB or her husband. As I said, if she was somehow trolling this thread she was doing so in a remarkably subtle way, bringing up a topic once in relation to a scene in books, then craftily letting it drop for 30 posts hoping that someone else would bring it up and then phrase it just precisely the right way to let her bring up her own personal anecdotes. Truly a brilliant and subtle job of manipulation. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/394 "2014-07-07T15:58:29Z")
I don’t think Broomstick is trolling at all. And while Manda JO’s point about Broomstick’s tendency to insert her life experiences into the conversation, that strikes me as besides the point in terms of what people are actually upset about as well. As mentioned already by me and a bunch of other people, she is doing everything she can to defend someone that she acknowledges is (very likely) guilty. And prior to being convinced that the person is (very likely) guilty, she used some of the typical tactics people use to discredit victims, which people find offensive. That’s it in a nutshell, and all the nitpicking about who said what when doesn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/395 "2014-07-07T16:53:16Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > As mentioned already by me and a bunch of other people, she is doing everything she can to defend someone that she acknowledges is (very likely) guilty. That’s the crux I guess… I don’t see her as remotely doing “everything she can” to defend MZB. I don’t see her as defending MZB at all, in any meaningful sense, unless in a situation in which most of the people in the thread are at rage level 12 on a scale of 1 to 10, being only at rage level 9.5 counts as “defending”. Having semantic and tangential disagreements with a large and wrathful majority is not the same as “doing all that one can” to defend the target of that wrath. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/396 "2014-07-07T16:57:50Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > My point on reviewing the thread was to point out that what happened was NOT what was frequently later described.:. Incorrect. Leave us do a timeline, shall we? Everyone was having a reasonable discussion until Broomstick came in sneering at everyone who didn’t agree with her. Post 20: > [@Broomstick](#): > > I think people who are now saying “oh, I’d never re-read her books now that I know about all this stuff from her personal life” are a bit… puzzling to me. You were OK with all the raping of boys, immature pre-adolescent girls being married off to old men, using men and women as breeding stock for living weapons, literal women in chains, marriage by abduction, neutering of people to act as power generators and relay stations UNTIL you found out about Breen and MZB’s personal life? Tone? Smug and condescending. Post 42: > [@Broomstick](#): > > Seriously? You investigate each and every author before you read anything by that person? Tone: Sarcastic and condescending. These are relevant for what comes next Note that Skald comes in around post 50, with the same basic viewpoint regarding the books as Broomstick (“I don’t care about the author, only their writing”–paraphrased) and while he’s questioned on another comment he made, nobody says anything to him about the one area he and Broomstick have in common. (They certainly don’t share any other views I’m aware of regarding this) Guin pops in around post 68 and again says that the writer doesn’t matter, only the books–again, no pushback beyond polite conversation. Then the infamous post 112 where Broomstick diminishes child rape the first time. > [@Broomstick](#): > > The Ardais/Syrtis scenario is the only one “pedo” I recall (which, strictly speaking, was ephebophilliac. Which fits more in line with Breen’s offenses than strictly pedophillia). I stated in the OP that Victim X was 10. It was repeated numerous times. Even _IF_ victim X was as hairy as I was around that age, A) He’d still look like a little boy (albiet one with some facial hair) and B) HE WAS 10. She knew this. Do you know _how_ we know she knew that the victim was 10 and therefore she was trying to diminish Breen’s child-rape? Post 122 where she responds to me pointing out that Victim X was 10 years old and she replies > [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, I’m aware of that. I’ve been aware of that for a number of years now. I have zero hesitation talking about the Breen case, what he was accused and convicted of, his dying in prison, and her defense of him whenever the topic comes up. Why do I need to read those cites over and over? So she knew that one of Breen’s many victims was ten (and another was 3). So she lied when she called Breen an “Ephebophile” since she knew he raped a ten year old three (3) years. As I’ve stated, I think that the word “ephebophile” is a bullshit attempt to make a distinction with no difference: it’s kiddie-rape either way…but if an so-called “ephoebophile” is a distinct class of kiddie-rapist, they’re after mid-to-late teens, not ten-year-olds. That’s the defense of Breen, along with the sneering condescension at anyone appalled by MZB’s complicity in Breen’s crimes. Nobody “made it up” or took it out of context. She point blank admits to knowing Breen raped 10 year olds (and younger kids) and she deliberately lies to try to cover his crimes by implying that the kids were older. And when called on it, she doubles-down over and over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/397 "2014-07-07T21:25:05Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Then the infamous post 112 where Broomstick diminishes child rape the first time. We’ve obviously passed the point in this thread where there’s any chance of anyone changing anyone’s mind. I got a massively different vibe and tone from Broomstick’s posts than everyone else did, which led to very very different reactions and assumptions and so forth. No real point in rehashing it further, but thanks for responding politely. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/398 "2014-07-07T22:22:29Z")
I didn’t know **Broomstick** existed before this thread. I am not overwhelmed by hir debating skills. OTOH I am grateful to know who a few more of the shrill, squealing offenderati are. Seriously, people,you are ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/399 "2014-07-07T22:43:29Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > . . . shrill, squealing offenderati . . . We do not squeal. Upon occasion, we outgribe. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/400 "2014-07-08T09:07:41Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I didn’t know **Broomstick** existed before this thread. I am not overwhelmed by hir debating skills. OTOH I am grateful to know who a few more of the shrill, squealing offenderati are. Seriously, people,you are ridiculous. Get it right: it’s [shrieking](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=708409), not squealing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973.md?page=21)