# Now that Marion Z. Bradley's child raping has come out, does it change your desire to reread her? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973 "2014-06-30T00:25:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/401 "2014-07-08T18:55:09Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Guin pops in around post 68… Fucking Guin, always startin’ shit. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/402 "2014-07-08T21:40:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Get it right: it’s [shrieking](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=708409), not squealing. “Do your basic research.” ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/403 "2014-07-08T23:30:46Z")
No, it does not change my desire to (re)read her? On the one hand, perhaps it’d make me a little more inclined to read her books - to see how the brain of a child rapist looks like. On the other hand, what I have seen of paedophiles, they always appear to be kinda stupid and emotionally stunted. So I’d imagine her books are rather dimwitted and one-diminutional as well. So that’s a negative. Incidentally anything that starts with the words “trigger warning,” as one of the links do, is an instant turn off and makes me less inclined to read whatever drivel that is inside. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/404 "2014-07-09T03:49:03Z")
Oh? Think you’re too tough to have triggers? Of course, most of my triggers are [HAPPY triggers.](http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFg5NzM=/z/yrwAAOxyf1dTG-4u/$_57.JPG) (SFW unless you work for Hobby Lobby, since they don’t carry sewing patterns. Not safe for wearing to work, especially if you are built like me. But a lady in HR has a Tinkerbelle costume that is racier and she doesn’t get in trouble, at least with the guys.) Never read Bradley, have less desire now. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/405 "2014-07-10T04:21:20Z")
Rather than reply to any one particular post let me just say: 1. I do not in any way approve of ANY form of rape, regardless of age, occupation, gender, or anything else. It’s all bad. 2. I have _always_, in this thread, stated that it is bad. Never once did I phrase any form of rape or molestation in any positive way. It’s all either bad or worse. 3. I don’t in any way defend what MZB did, I am no apologist for neither her nor her husband. Their acts were criminal and in their personal lives they were scum. Apparently, my sin here was not in immediately joining the lynch mob but hey, that’s the Pit for you. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/406 "2014-07-10T06:10:21Z")
I’ve never read anything by Bradley, and I’m sure I won’t now. Not much of a stand on my part because I wasn’t interested before. > [@Broomstick](#): > > That’s part of why I won’t join a boycott - why just MZB and not all the other bad people who made something? This is odd to me. It’s rather akin to saying “Jeffrey punched me in the face, but why would I stop hanging out with him when other people are bad, too?” Just because other people may be bad too, in ways we may or may not know, doesn’t actually change whether Jeffrey punched me in the face and whether I can then refuse to hang with Jeffrey. Maybe Gary kicked a kitten, but I don’t actually know anything about it so I’ll still hang with Gary. Maybe Gloria eats thin mints, which makes her much worse than a face-puncher, but she doesn’t eat them around me, so I’ll still hang with Gloria. And maybe Bette is a child rapist and I decide that not only won’t I hang with Bette, I won’t go to her house and I’ll get rid of the nice scarf she got me for Christmas because it’s fucking oogy now. All a boycott is saying is “I’ve found out something about you that I so cannot support that I withdraw such support.” Different people have different triggers for it. If there’s a store you won’t shop at because the proprietor stares at your breasts, you are boycotting it. So, why Bradley? Because her actions are known and horrific. That’s all. Not everyone does what she did. She didn’t just do something minor that should be put into the “everyone does bad things” bin. It goes in the “some people do horrific things” bin. And it would be okay to boycott everyone whose transgressions are in the “horrific things” bin, even if other people do bad stuff, too. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/407 "2014-07-10T06:47:21Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > So, why Bradley? Because her actions are known and horrific. That’s all. Not everyone does what she did. She didn’t just do something minor that should be put into the “everyone does bad things” bin. It goes in the “some people do horrific things” bin. And it would be okay to boycott everyone whose transgressions are in the “horrific things” bin, even if other people do bad stuff, too. But this ignores all the key points of Broomstick’s entire thesis: If the author didn’t even depict child rape in her books, very often, and the child in question could have been physically mature for her age anyway, who are we to say it was really such a horrific act? Besides, she has a friend who was able to reconcile things with her father who repeatedly raped her as a child. So there’s that. And about 110 years ago some racist old coot founded a car company… so where do we draw the line? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/408 "2014-07-10T09:38:34Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Apparently, my sin here was not in immediately joining the lynch mob but hey, that’s the Pit for you. Yeah, that’s why we’re all up **Skald** ’s face too…ooh, wait, no, we’re not. Because he (and others) just said it didn’t matter to him, he didn’t try and first do damage control on Moira’s bona fides, or try and use Moira’s _past_ reluctance to stain her legacy as a reason for maintaining her legacy _now_. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/409 "2014-07-10T10:08:28Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > All a boycott is saying is “I’ve found out something about you that I so cannot support that I withdraw such support.” Different people have different triggers for it. If there’s a store you won’t shop at because the proprietor stares at your breasts, you are boycotting it. You’re not supporting or boycotting the author. In fact she’s been dead for a long time and is in a place (possible very warm) where she’s in no way impacted by your reading habits. Reading a book is not the same as subscribing to a political party or shopping in Walmart. The book has a life of its own apart from that of its author, and besides reading ought sometimes be about being presented with outlandish and even outrageous and repellent ideas. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/410 "2014-07-10T10:10:29Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > The book has a life of its own apart from that of its author but not _wholly_ apart (unless by Anonymous) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/411 "2014-07-10T11:23:01Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > But this ignores all the key points of Broomstick’s entire thesis: Please do not put words in my mouth. **jsgoddess’** post was thoughtful and well reasoned and makes a valid point. Yours, on the other hand perpetuates falsehoods about what I have said. People in this thread have been repeatedly challenged to provide a DIRECT quote, to point to the post where I say such things as you repeat and they can’t. Do you know why? _I never said what you think I said_. I can speak for myself, thank you very much, which should be obvious by now. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/412 "2014-07-10T11:28:04Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Rather than reply to any one particular post let me just say: > > 1. I do not in any way approve of ANY form of rape, regardless of age, occupation, gender, or anything else. It’s all bad. But not all _that_ bad if the kid has pubes. Or looks older. Or is a mutant 10 year old who looks like Clint Eastwood in “High Plains Drifter” but is still a _ten year old_. And you still haven’t figured out that your stupid “it’s bad or worse” statement reverses to “it’s worse or less worse” aka “worse or better”. And that your crazy-ass defense of sliding scale of rape you cherish is based on what it says about the rapist, NOT what it does to the victim. > [@Broomstick from an earlier post in the thread](#): > > I has to do with the ADULT. > > While it is normal to be attracted to someone with adult secondary sexual characteristics even if those develop early, it is NOT normal to be be attracted to physically immature people. An adult attracted to toddlers has a far, far greater defect than an adult attracted to teens. > > An adult with a normal sex drive who has raped someone (albeit someone too young to consent) might still serve their time in jail, get out, direct their desires towards consenting adults, and basically be allowed back into society with some hope of good behavior afterwards. We’d still have to watch them carefully but I think there is some small chance of these people not re-offending. > > Someone attracted to toddlers is broken. There is no fix for something like that. There are no legal and moral people for them to desire. They can not be trusted to behave and will have to be closely watched and monitored if they are ever let out in order to protect their potential victims. They will be forever sexually frustrated. While some people can tolerate that, in their case it would be coerced and not voluntary. Because, yeah…the adult being “broken” or not is what matters, not the kid who was raped. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > 1. I don’t in any way defend what MZB did, I am no apologist for neither her nor her husband. Except for, y’know, the part where you deliberately lied about the kid’s age to minimize Breen’s crimes, the part where you implied that one of the victims was lying (Moira)…until a man (her brother) corroborated her, the parts where you express sneering puzzlement that anyone could be so disgusted with Bradley that their dislike spills over into their books…etc. > [@](#): > > Apparently, my sin here was not in immediately joining the lynch mob What MrDibble said. > [@](#): > > But hey, that’s the Pit for you But hey, that’s a delusional freak who’s so invested in some fantasy novels that she’s willing to keep fighting to minimize real-life crimes and lie about real life victims for you. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/413 "2014-07-10T11:58:35Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > But not all _that_ bad if the kid has pubes. Or looks older. Or is a mutant 10 year old who looks like Clint Eastwood in “High Plains Drifter” but is still a _ten year old_. Again - I have made it very clear in every post that any form of rape is bad. It is YOU who insists that this somehow warps in bad vs. good when it’s really bad vs. worse. Again, what you posted is a twisted paraphase and not what I actually said. Why? Because what I actually said doesn’t support your outrage. > [@](#): > > Because, yeah…the adult being “broken” or not is what matters, not the kid who was raped. :rolleyes: Of course it matters what happens to the kid. What happens to the kid is a crime and always bad. Where it matters for the adult is whether rehabilitation is even remotely possible or simply impossible. I don’t think pedophiles can ever be rehabilitated. If they can’t control their impulses they should be incarcerated for life for the protection of other people. I’m not rehashing the rest of it because we’ve already been over that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/414 "2014-07-10T11:58:53Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Please do not put words in my mouth. Eh, can’t tell when you’re being mocked, can you? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/415 "2014-07-10T12:02:08Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t think pedophiles can ever be rehabilitated. But ephebophiles and hebephiles (what you really meant when you drew a distinction between pedophiles and ephebophiles), they’re _totally_ rehabilation material! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/416 "2014-07-10T12:11:15Z")
I think it’s pretty damn unlikely there, too, to be honest. Their sexual focused is still messed up. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/417 "2014-07-10T12:17:06Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Besides, she has a friend who was able to reconcile things with her father who repeatedly raped her as a child. So you were incapable of reading to the point where I clearly state I disagreed with her decision to do that? Here, let me help you - it was post #124. What I actually said, with emphasis added so you can now see the part that you couldn’t before: > [@](#): > > Yes, sometimes in real life people don’t want to eviscerate the bad guy and hang the pieces from the battlements. She choose, of her own free will after two decades of therapy and recovery, to re-contact her biological father and periodically visits him. That is her choice. **I don’t agree with it, but it’s not my choice to make.** Frankly, I still find such reconciliations baffling. I can’t imagine forgiving such a violation yet such things do happen. I don’t have a problem with people disagreeing with me. I do have a problem with them lying about what I actually said. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/418 "2014-07-10T12:38:03Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > But ephebophiles and hebephiles (what you really meant when you drew a distinction between pedophiles and ephebophiles), they’re _totally_ rehabilation material! > :rolleyes: Are those people who are attracted to teenagers? Everybody is attracted to teenagers. Or at least older teenagers. Most adult people just shouldn’t do anything about it because it is creepy and teenagers should be with other teenagers. But to classify it as a perversion would be foolish I think. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/419 "2014-07-10T12:47:13Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I think it’s pretty damn unlikely there, too, to be honest. Their sexual focused is still messed up. Then what.the.fuck was the point of you drawing the distinction in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/420 "2014-07-10T12:51:37Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Are those people who are attracted to teenagers? No. Look it up. > [@](#): > > Everybody is attracted to teenagers. No, this is not true. “Everybody” is not. Some people are attracted exclusively to mature adults. Or even aged folks. I agree there’s nothing particularly perverse about an adult being attracted to a 17yo, but that is _in no fucking way_ what we’re talking about, here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973.md?page=22)