# Now that Marion Z. Bradley's child raping has come out, does it change your desire to reread her? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973 "2014-06-30T00:25:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/41 "2014-06-30T15:43:45Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > MZB had already alienated me, first by the approval given to scapegoating men in the first Darkover novel, Y’know, like I said I haven’t read the Avalon books, but I don’t remember tons of this in the Darkover stuff I read, certainly not the earlier ones. Quite a few of her earlier books were about male protagonists and in a few female characters scarcely register. Even the early Renunciate stuff I read wasn’t too bad - shades of gray rather than black and white ( though teenage guy that I was, I didn’t care for them as much ). Like I said I stopped reading them chronologically back in the early 1980’s, so it could be later ones were worse in that regard ( though it appears virtually everything in the last decade of her life was ghostwritten ). But while the first book from 1958 was kind of _crappy_ IMHO ( she got to be a better writer by the 1970’s ), I don’t recall raging misandry. Or do you mean the first one you _read_, not the first one she published? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/42 "2014-06-30T15:46:23Z")
I tried reading "Mists of Avalon’ but was turned off by mucking with the characters to make them as unsympathetic as possible - then the friend who loaned me the copy said ‘Wait until Arthur shows up!’ and I said fuck this noise. I’m active in the SCA and now have a bit of vomit-in-mouth with her involvement but I also realize she was one of several founders and it has moved way beyond all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/43 "2014-06-30T16:04:47Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > MZB had already alienated me, first by the approval given to scapegoating men in the first Darkover novel, second by being incredibly rude in person at a convention. Having encountered her at a small college convention in the 80s (when I was reading Darkover books), at the time I attributed her offputting manner to the fact that I was a man intruding into the sacred womanspace of her fandom. In discussing this story elsewhere, however, someone else mentioned her weird affect in person, and I now suspect I was just too unexperienced to pick up on creep vibes. With this news, however, her writing an extended story arc where Danilo Syrtis is adopted by and reconciled to his abuser and rapist, Dyan Ardais, is just bile-inducing. And there are still fans who downplay that. ugh. Bradley had been amongst the authors (like Jack Chandler, or Orson Scott Card) I regarded as having some good ideas, but too mixed up with their own personal ickyness for me to wholly enjoy. This bit of news has pushed things a bit outside that pale, even. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/44 "2014-06-30T16:19:11Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > There are too many good novels out there by people who aren’t evil childrapers for me to waste my time with ones who are. Seriously? You investigate each and every author before you read anything by that person? Because if you don’t then you have no way to know if you’re reading something written by a childrapist or murderer or thief or goatfucker. Even if you do investigate, something might come out later. And how does the author’s personal conduct affect the work? The author being a saint doesn’t make a novel better, the author being scum doesn’t make it worse. The work should be judged on its own merits. Now, where the money goes - that might be an issue. You’ve got situations like OJ Simpson who wrote _If I Did It_ which is often assumed to be thinly disguised autobiography. However, a judge later assigned all profits to the Goldman family so even though it was written by a murderer if you do purchase a copy it actually goes to the victim’s family and in no way benefits the scumbag who committed the crime. I fully approve of that solution. Now, if someone said _I think it’s wrong the profits from the novels don’t go to the author’s kids and that’s why I won’t touch them_ I’m OK with that. But the notion that you’re somehow going to get brain cooties from an author or in any way affect someone who’s dead is just, as I said, bizarre to me. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/45 "2014-06-30T16:27:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Seriously? You investigate each and every author before you read anything by that person? Because if you don’t then you have no way to know if you’re reading something written by a childrapist or murderer or thief or goatfucker. Even if you do investigate, something might come out later. Of course not. I know next to nothing about the majority of the authors I’ve read and the probability suggests that some number of them have skeletons of varying ickiness in their closets. But when an author I have been reading or contemplating reading is revealed to be an asshole or degenerate, yeah, I skip over them because I’m not comfortable consuming their output. I also don’t eat at chik-fil-a or shop at Hobby Lobby, not because I think it actually does anything except make a difference for my personal starfish. Clearly your mileage is different. Bully for you. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/46 "2014-06-30T16:27:56Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > MZB had already alienated me, first by the approval given to scapegoating men in the first Darkover novel, second by being incredibly rude in person at a convention. Er… which “first Darkover novel” would that be? The first published, _Sword of Aldones_? Where’s the man-bashing in that one? Please point it out. The first in the series chronology, _Darkover Landfall_? Again, please point out the “man-bashing” in that one because I don’t see it. Now, the Renunciate stories, oh yes, a ton of man-bashing there I’ll agree but none of those were “first” in the series. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/47 "2014-06-30T17:13:38Z")
It’s been a long time since I’ve read a MZB book. I recall being drawn to them for her strongly-drawn female protagonists. I recall thinking of the books as slight, with much better authors being available. But it will be a very long time before I read one again. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/48 "2014-06-30T17:23:57Z")
I don’t think I’ve ever read much by her, although she was always on the “someday” list. But not now. Ugh. I’m willing to forgive artists for lots of stuff – weird lifestyles, holding political views that I find detestable. I can usually separate the art from the artist. But there’s a line, and this is way the hell over it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/49 "2014-06-30T17:56:03Z")
No. It’s irrelevant. I prefer to know nothing, good or bad, about authors I like. If you like, you can say I assume they’re all bastards. Also, I seriously like most of her work and will not be told to stop liking it by others. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/50 "2014-06-30T18:02:05Z")
Oh, and I’ve known about the allegations that she enabled her husband’s pedophilia for at least 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/51 "2014-06-30T18:03:42Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Also, I seriously like most of her work and will not be told to stop liking it by others. There’s something seriously interesting in how hyper-defensive this subject makes some people. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/52 "2014-06-30T18:06:05Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > There’s something seriously interesting in how hyper-defensive this subject makes some people. I am not being defensive, much less hyper-defensive. I am explaining my position, part of which is that other people’s opinions don’t matter to how much I enjoy an artist’s work ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/53 "2014-06-30T18:07:01Z")
Were the proceeds from her books and stories used to pay for her husband’s defense? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/54 "2014-06-30T18:17:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Were the proceeds from her books and stories used to pay for her husband’s defense? Why does that matter? They’re both dead now. Buying her books can neither profit nor harm either of them. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/55 "2014-06-30T18:20:48Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > No. It’s irrelevant. I prefer to know nothing, good or bad, about authors I like. If you like, you can say I assume they’re all bastards. Also, I seriously like most of her work and will not be told to stop liking it by others. Don’t look at me. My OP is “Here’s how I feel–how do you feel?” I’m interested in other’s opinions and want to share mine, but what you (generic you) chose to read is your business. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/56 "2014-06-30T18:20:53Z")
I read a lot of the Darkover novels when I was a teenager and college student (but never read Mists of Avalon). I think I still have a bunch of them in my storage locker, but I have no particular desire to re-read them at this point. I think I bought most of them used, so I didn’t support her directly. I’ve known about Walter Breen for a while, but a month or so was the first I’d heard about MZB herself. Disgusting stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/57 "2014-06-30T18:21:54Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Don’t look at me. My OP is “Here’s how I feel–how do you feel?” I wasn’t looking at you, maimer of Tyr. I’ve had the argument with others. Or, rather, would have, if I’d let it develop into an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/58 "2014-06-30T18:28:53Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Why does that matter? They’re both dead now. Buying her books can neither profit nor harm either of them. What if the profits are going to someone who was an enabler of those two child molesters- Lisa Waters, who admitted to covering up Breen’s sexual abuse in court. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/59 "2014-06-30T18:29:27Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > misandrist > > (A misanthrope hates humans, that is, men and women both) What is it called when you just hate people in the next booth at the restaurant? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973/60 "2014-06-30T18:32:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What if the profits are going to someone who was an enabler of those two child molesters- Lisa Waters, who admitted to covering up Breen’s sexual abuse in court. I still don’t care. I’d prefer not to know it, as I don’t want to know anything about the private lives of authors and other artists I enjoy, either good or bad. I want to evaluate their art on its own merit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-marion-z-bradleys-child-raping-has-come-out-does-it-change-your-desire-to-reread-her/691973.md?page=4)