# Now that the dust has settled on the Trump's Russia Hoax **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 21, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952 "2021-10-21T22:50:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/43 "2021-10-22T17:02:46Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > That is not my theory, I am told he prefers blondes. Your post reads like you think that he feared that, not mine. There’s a Russian conspiracy theory that Trump prefers blondes? Last time I looked, he was married to a brunette, but I suppose that doesn’t mean much. As to Lewinsky, Bill Clinton was investigated for real estate improprieties and ultimately impeached for an affair. Do you have an inkling of wonder why Trump might not want to go down that same path? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/44 "2021-10-22T17:07:17Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > There’s a Russian conspiracy theory that Trump prefers blondes? Last time I looked, he was married to a brunette, but I suppose that doesn’t mean much. Ivana Trump and Marla Maples are blonde (same with Stormy Daniels) so I think Melania is an outlier. Even her hair is highlighted, at least sometimes. [![](https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2020-11-01T004816Z_1032866439_RC20UJ9CZ0ED_RTRMADP_3_USA-ELECTION-TRUMP.jpg) ](https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2020-11-01T004816Z_1032866439_RC20UJ9CZ0ED_RTRMADP_3_USA-ELECTION-TRUMP.jpg) I think it’s safe to assume he likes lighter hair in general. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/45 "2021-10-22T17:12:29Z")
> **[There’s Already a Campaign to Impeach President Donald Trump](https://time.com/4641233/donald-trump-inauguration-impeach/)** > > The online petition went live as Trump was inaugurated That’s from Trump’s first day in office. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/46 "2021-10-22T17:14:42Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I think it’s safe to assume he likes lighter hair in general. I will concede to your greater research into the subject of Trump’s women hair colour preferences. Remind me why this is a topic for discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/47 "2021-10-22T17:16:55Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > That’s from Trump’s first day in office. That had nothing to do about the election, it was about his ability to serve as president without a conflict of interest. It wasn’t run by Democrats either. > It is run by two groups, Free Speech for People and RootsAction, which believe Trump’s possible conflicts of interest are grounds for his ouster, the Washington Post reports. That’s nothing like the elected Republican officials who continue to spread election fraud conspiracy theories. > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > I will concede to your greater research into the subject of Trump’s women hair colour preferences. > > Remind me why this is a topic for discussion? Beats me, I didn’t bring it up. Just going with the flow. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/48 "2021-10-22T17:18:24Z")
He did start breaking laws from the first day in office, so it would make sense that there would be a petition to hold him accountable for it. You could take note that it didn’t get very much traction on the left, but if you were to do something like that, then it would disabuse you of your bothsidism, so is likely to be rejected out of hand as it doesn’t fit the narrative that you want to build. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/49 "2021-10-22T17:20:36Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > So Russian mobsters in the US may or may not have been tied to Russian mobsters in Russia. Not sure how they would be sending cash across to the US but anyway. The transferred cash is apparently illicit, but it’s made legitimate by being layered as unreported gambling winnings? That’s totally not how money laundering works. Tell that to the Feds, [who fined the casino $10 mil for anti-money laundering violations.](https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-fines-trump-taj-mahal-casino-resort-10-million-significant-and-long) ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/50 "2021-10-22T17:25:02Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > Does it really matter, now that Trump has conceded that the election was not rigged and that Biden won? > > I don’t know. It was quite obvious that Hilary Clinton lost the 2016 election, and she conceded, but accusations that the election was stolen still continued for years. It seems to me anytime a candidate “loses” an election with a majority of votes that “stolen” election conversation will continue in one form or another. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/51 "2021-10-22T18:54:20Z")
Your argument is entirely right, and although this not the subject you’re discussing, it represents the problem with American bipartisanship and extremism on both sides of the political divide. 2020 Republicans are undoubtedly worse than 2016 Democrats, at least when it comes to the recognition of the Presidential election. I fully agree that the Republican congressman that refused to ratify Biden’s election were in the wrong. Does that wrongness therefore apply to all Republican political objectives in the current Congress? I don’t think it does. I think that objections to the expansion of government spending and government control are entirely valid. But somehow that argument isn’t being debated on its principal ideals, or even the political ideals. Instead the debate seems to be based purely on factional party ideals. I’m back to “bothsideism”, but with a positive take that each side will consider the other’ concerns and come up with a compromise. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/52 "2021-10-22T19:09:41Z")
I mean this thread is supposedly about the Trump-Russia issue, not “all of government in the United States.” I do think that assessing the merits of the parties loses its value when one party has a very significant portion who have sent clear indicators, they no longer consider elections valid unless they win. I voted for Republican candidates 95% of the time until 2016, and I will never vote for another one again until the party has clearly resolved its anti-democratic wing back to a very small fringe minority–that’s my opinion on the “larger political” spectrum, which again, I don’t think the thread is about. The “size of government” doesn’t mean fuck all to me if one side wants government to enshrine Trump as a dictator. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/53 "2021-10-22T19:14:54Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > He did start breaking laws from the first day in office, so it would make sense that there would be a petition to hold him accountable for it. > > You could take note that it didn’t get very much traction on the left, but if you were to do something like that, then it would disabuse you of your bothsidism, so is likely to be rejected out of hand as it doesn’t fit the narrative that you want to build. So you claim that Trump > [@k9bfriender](#): > > did start breaking laws from the first day in office but don’t offer a cite of what laws he broke on his first day in office. And did the protestors just predict this unspecified lawbreaking, and assume Trump should be punished for it? Because, if that standard was applied to any minority group, my belief is that you’d disagree with that application. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/54 "2021-10-22T19:25:09Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Tell that to the Feds, [who fined the casino $10 mil for anti-money laundering violations.](https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-fines-trump-taj-mahal-casino-resort-10-million-significant-and-long) So we’re specifically discussing Russian anti-money-laundering activities, correct? Where in your cite does it say that Trump laundered Russian money, much less Russian money that could be tied to Putins’s government\> ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/55 "2021-10-22T19:35:18Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Where in your cite does it say that Trump laundered Russian money The FinCEN cite is to counter your argument that the casino was not engaged in laundering money. > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Russian money that could be tied to Putins’s government I never made any such claim; I claimed that the laundered money was tied to Russians. [Putin does have ties to Russian mobsters, though.](https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2019/12/16/gangs-and-gulags-how-vladimir-putin-utilizes-organized-crime-to-power-his-mafia-state/) ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/56 "2021-10-22T19:51:06Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I mean this thread is supposedly about the Trump-Russia issue Which Trump-Russia issue? This thread is about “Trump’s Russia Hoax.” You can equate that to poor Republican Party policy and actions if you want, but that seems a bit of a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/57 "2021-10-22T20:23:42Z")
Respectfully, you’ve actually touched on exactly what is so infuriating about the modern GOP, and I’m not even sure you saw it. Between 2016 and 2020, the GOP grew the deficit. They slashed taxes (for the rich and big businesses permanently, for the middle class and poor temporarily), and continued to spend more money every year, raised the debt ceiling 4 times, and at no point did they utter a single concern about spending money like a toddler with a credit card. But now, all of a sudden, it’s a big enough deal to shut down the government and stop paying soldiers. It’s the hypocrisy. Look at how McConnell refused to do his Constitutional duty and advise, let alone consent, to a Supreme Court justice, but pushed through a hyper partisan Justice in record time in very similar circumstances. The GOP doesn’t govern. They have been using their time in office to destroy how the government functions, and they are doing it intentionally. See the Post Office, which the GOP has been trying to get rid of for decades, so they pass laws making the USPS insolvent due to insanely strict future budgeting obligations, then scream about that insolvency and use it as justification to change how the USPS functions. Look at how the Democrats handled Al Franken, compared to how the GOP handled… Trump, Gaetz, Kavanaugh, Moore, etc. etc. The GOP lies, constantly, about things. MTG goes on talk shows and talks about how the Democrats have a “Radical Socialist Agenda”. Which is not true. But they say it all the time. The Democrats don’t do that, certainly not even close to the same scale. The GOP in Congress impeached Clinton, a purely political move. Thankfully the Senate did not take up that cause. The GOP refused to even allow the idea of punishing Trump for his abuses of power, his election interference, or inciting an effort to overthrow the Democratic process and institute a dictatorship. The Democrats have flaws, lord knows, but you are comparing apples and cats. They are so far apart in levels of bad that it’s insane that anyone who still tries the “both sides are the same” can do so with a straight face. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/58 "2021-10-22T20:28:31Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > So Russian mobsters in the US may or may not have been tied to Russian mobsters in Russia. Not sure how they would be sending cash across to the US but anyway. I just did some digging and found one possibility: [Vyacheslav Ivankov](https://sethhettena.com/2017/10/06/the-russian-gangster-who-loved-trumps-taj-mahal/) ➡ [Ivan Myazin](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-11-20/the-russian-banker-who-knew-too-much) ➡ Vlad’s cousin [Igor Putin.](https://www.news-review.co.uk/politics/08/2021/who-is-standing-for-the-russian-laundry/4022/) ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/59 "2021-10-22T20:39:34Z")
I’ve [addressed](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/49) [this.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/delay-in-prosecution-of-trump/950708/135). OK, I’m not saying he committed all these crimes on his first day in office, but as far as I can tell there’s no precedent that says if the President manages to get through his first day without violating laws, he gets a free pass for the rest of his term. Not even for Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/60 "2021-10-22T20:40:19Z")
That question is pending clarification with OP. Any general Republican policy issues you’re referring to were not brought into the thread by me. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/61 "2021-10-22T20:40:21Z")
Paul Manafort is a horrible human being who made his living cleaning up the reputations of murderous dictators and rigging elections in Eastern Europe on behalf of Russian-aligned interests. His mere presence on a US Presidential campaign should’ve raised alarms throughout our intelligence agencies. They would been negligent NOT to investigate based on his presence on the campaign alone. While there was no evidence of collaboration between the Trump campaign and the Russian government, there was plenty of evidence of collaboration between the Trump campaign and Russian individuals with unofficial connections to the Russian government. This is not proof of innocence, it proof that most Americans don’t know how an oligarchy operates. The fact that the Trump campaign actually took a meeting with some people claiming to be acting on behalf of the Russian government for the express purpose of getting compromising information on a political opponent should’ve been damning. The fact that they claim not to have received information at this meeting does not whitewash it. I’m frankly shocked at the amount of moral slippage that has happened nationwide since 2016, and the fact that federal law enforcement and our security agencies shrugged this off is evidence of the gradual corruption that has happened since then. So much so that in 2020, Rudy Guiliani openly worked with Russian agents to obtain dirt on the Bidens, and he’s said that he was aware that they were probably agents of the Russian government. If you hire a hitman, you are not exonerated simply if the murder attempt is unsuccessful. The Ukraine scandal was simply a continuation of the Russia scandal, an escalation enabled by the multiple failures to hold Trump accountable. Russia benefited greatly from Trump’s action in this debacle, God only knows how many Ukrainian lives were lost in their war against Russia because of the delay in receiving military aid. Russia has been very successful in their campaign to destroy Democracy in the USA, importing techniques that they have used very successfully to gaslight their own citizenry. Why is George Soros such a bogeyman compared to other liberal donors? Is it just coincidence that’s he’s Putin’s archenemy? I found this post by a Russian immigrant on the Reddit Q Casualties forum. It’s long, but he explains the breakdown of reality in modern Russia and its export to the US very well > **[r/QAnonCasualties - Divorcing QAnon Wife](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/comments/q9bkax/divorcing_qanon_wife/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)** > > 1,477 votes and 140 comments so far on Reddit A quote from the post: “I’m writing all this to give you a context that what you experience as QANON in the West has started in Russia much earlier. The blatant lies, the media hysteria, the undermining of Democratic values, the polarization of society. The tools are the same and so is the goal. To destroy democratic principles, give power back to authoritarian leaders and turn society into a cult-worshipping mob.” ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952/62 "2021-10-22T21:21:29Z")
I take it that you did not read your own cite? I thought since you had already provided it, you knew what it contained, and wouldn’t be silly enough to ask me to cite what you already had. I guess I was wrong, and you did not bother to read what you cited, for some reason. For that reason, I don’t think that there is any value in continuing any sort of conversation with you here, I see no productive value if you would make such an ignorant statement and accusation, all based on you not reading what you personally cited. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-the-dust-has-settled-on-the-trumps-russia-hoax/952952.md?page=4)