# Now THAT Was Fucking Helpful.... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 10, 2002, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780 "2002-12-10T16:31:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BIG\_DADDY\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@BIG\_DADDY\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BIG_DADDY_1)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/101 "2002-12-11T23:50:20Z")
> [@](#): > > One can get rid of the terrorist problem by killing Palestinian children before they have a chance to become terrorisits. And given the context, what are we to make of the comment about “eliminating all Palestinians in the region,” other that jolly Clint is suggesting that Israel would be justified in killing all Palestinians. (Somehow, I don’t think he was talking about simply deporting them.) I thought he just stated that he was surprised they had not done that? No? BIG DADDY Feeling Israel has been VERY thick skinned. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/102 "2002-12-11T23:52:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BIG\_DADDY \* > \*\*IF they can do it in Vegas we can do it there!!! \*\* Small nit here Big P Daddy. I realize it’s a long way from Kansas, but prostitution is illegal in Clark County, NV, which includes the City of Las Vegas. It is legal in Storey County, the county line being 50 miles north of Las Vegas at the closest point. As a public service, I will add that although it is also illegal in Washoe County (Reno/Carson City), it is legal in Lyons County, which is only 10 miles from Reno. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/103 "2002-12-11T23:57:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BIG\_DADDY \* > **I thought he just stated that he was surprised they had not done that? No?** No. Given his other comments, it’s clear he thinks it’s justified. ---
**Author:** ![BIG\_DADDY\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@BIG\_DADDY\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BIG_DADDY_1)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/104 "2002-12-11T23:58:37Z")
Dooku, Thanks for the correction, I see your an expert on this. Been to the Bunny Ranch lately? BIG DADDY Preffers pulling them out of the Crazy Hourse II. 1. It’s in Vegas. 2. It’s almost as easy, you just have to have game. 3. You get some real hotties and you get em all night. ---
**Author:** ![patteeu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@patteeu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/patteeu)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/105 "2002-12-12T00:07:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Colibri \* > \*\*The original context of “nits make lice” - in GQ - was a call for genocide against American Indians, as explained previously in this thread. **Clint** obviously intended the genocidal connotations, as his clarification does in fact make clear: One can get rid of the terrorist problem by killing Palestinian children before they have a chance to become terrorisits. And given the context, what are we to make of the comment about “eliminating all Palestinians in the region,” other that jolly **Clint** is suggesting that Israel would be justified in killing all Palestinians. (Somehow, I don’t think he was talking about simply deporting them.) \*\* CfW doesn’t admit to being aware of the historical origins of the phrase he used. You’re interpretation, far from being a fair read of CfW’s “obvious” intention, is completely unsupported by his statement. I read CfW’s point as being that the Palestinian adults bring their condition upon themselves. And the fact that Palestinian children die in the crossfire (and indeed they die as they participate directly in the conflict as well), is a somewhat unfortunate but inevitable result of their parents irresponsibility. You can disagree with his position, but it is quite unfair to put the word genocide into his mouth. I have heard the phrase “nits make lice” before but never knew the origins. I’m betting that you didn’t know the origin before reading it in this thread. To say that CfW obviously knew the origin is illogical. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/106 "2002-12-12T00:33:57Z")
**BIG\_DADDY** , I’d be interested in hearing your answer to **Gary Kumquat** ’s post. Namely, if you murder someone, would a just punishment be killing you and nine of your family members? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/107 "2002-12-12T00:41:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by patteeu \* > \*\*CfW doesn’t admit to being aware of the historical origins of the phrase he used. You’re interpretation, far from being a fair read of CfW’s “obvious” intention, is completely unsupported by his statement. > > . . . > > I have heard the phrase “nits make lice” before but never knew the origins. I’m betting that you didn’t know the origin before reading it in this thread. To say that CfW obviously knew the origin is illogical. \*\* Regardless of whether or not he knew the origins, he originally used it in the context of advocating the killing of Palestinian children: from the thread that sparked this: > [@](#): > > _originally posted by Clint from Wichita_ > \*\*“Israel kills many more Palestinian children than vice versa, so using such emotive BS is ultimately self-defeating.” > > Nits make lice.\*\* (note that the first part was quoted from a post by **MC Master of Cermonies** ) **Clint’s** _oevre_ here also includes these little gems, from various threads: > [@](#): > > _originally posted by Clint from Wichita_\*\* > Palestinians are, for the most part, despicable scumbags who should be grateful that Israel hasn’t wiped them from the face of the Earth. Israel was never theirs, and never will be. > > If they did somehow manage to gain control of Israel, it would be transformed into a cesspool in less than 10 years IMO.\*\* > [@](#): > > _originally posted by Clint from Wichita_ > \*\*The next time someone says, “Jesus is coming!” to you, just say “Yeah. Across your nose!” > > The conversion attempt will probably end there.\*\* > [@](#): > > _originally posted by Clint from Wichita_ > \*\*Parents should start spanking the hell out of their kids again. “Timeouts” and counting to 3 is a joke. Kids are learning at a young age that there are few to no consequences for their actions, even though that’s not the case. > > I’m not talking about child abuse, but I agree wholeheartedly that if you spare the rod, you spoil the child.\*\* Quite a lot of assholery there in a mere 18 threads, and I haven’t quoted it all. With all due respect, **patteeu** , are you _sure_ you want to defend this guy? This poor maligned innocent? ---
**Author:** ![patteeu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@patteeu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/patteeu)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/108 "2002-12-12T00:43:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Giraffe \* > \*\ ***BIG\_DADDY** , I’d be interested in hearing your answer to **Gary Kumquat** ’s post. Namely, if you murder someone, would a just punishment be killing you and nine of your family members? \*\* Just so that you understand that your discussing a hypothetical here, I’d like to point out that the Israelis don’t intentionally kill the family members of terrorists who attack Israel. They do, however, bulldoze the homes of family members and occasionally family members who refuse to leave are killed in the process. patteeu \<-- confused about where the hypothetical comes from ---
**Author:** ![BIG\_DADDY\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@BIG\_DADDY\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BIG_DADDY_1)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/109 "2002-12-12T00:51:21Z")
Giraffe, I did answer it somewhere but would be glad to repeat it. If it is an isolated incident then it is absolutely not justified. On the other hand if you have a group of militant cowards that prey on citizens and children then that is the only way you can get their people to turn on them and quit harboring them and supporting their needs. The families will change their attitude right away when they realize that they are not walkin away from this with 10k from Saddam and nothing to worry about. When they know that the US military will hunt them down and kill them too you watch how things change. Many of these terrorists do it to take care of their family with that kind of money. That would change right away as well. If you knew there was going to be a serious price to pay for you and yours because of what these knucklheads are doing you are going to be much more willing to turn informant and and/or do what’s necessary to rid yourself of these idiots. It’s not a good or nice thing but is unfortunately necessary. I gotta get out of here for now but thanks for the question. ---
**Author:** ![BIG\_DADDY\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@BIG\_DADDY\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BIG_DADDY_1)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/110 "2002-12-12T00:54:06Z")
patteau, It wasn’t a hypothetical it came initially from me stating that we should smite their terrorist acts 10x and kind of took on a life of it’s own if I recall correctly. ---
**Author:** ![patteeu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@patteeu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/patteeu)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/111 "2002-12-12T00:56:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Colibri \* > \*\*…With all due respect, patteeu, are you _sure_ you want to defend this guy? This poor maligned innocent? \*\* Could you direct me to that thread that sparked this so I can have a look? ---
**Author:** ![patteeu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@patteeu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/patteeu)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/112 "2002-12-12T00:57:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BIG\_DADDY \* > \*\*patteau, > > It wasn’t a hypothetical it came initially from me stating that we should smite their terrorist acts 10x and kind of took on a life of it’s own if I recall correctly. \*\* I remember that post, but I was just wondering where the part about family members came from. I assumed it was someone who was incorrectly accusing Israel of killing the family members of suicide bombers. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/113 "2002-12-12T01:23:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by patteeu \* > \*\*Could you direct me to that thread that sparked this so I can have a look? \*\* That thread is linked to in the first post in this thread (as is customary in Pit threads). Tip: if you click on the ‘search’ button underneath a post, it will return all the posts by that user - which is how I located the posts by **Clint** I quoted. ---
**Author:** ![patteeu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@patteeu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/patteeu)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/114 "2002-12-12T01:31:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Colibri \* > \*\*That thread is linked to in the first post in this thread (as is customary in Pit threads). > > Tip: if you click on the ‘search’ button underneath a post, it will return all the posts by that user - which is how I located the posts by **Clint** I quoted. \*\* Thx ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/115 "2002-12-12T01:51:59Z")
Ignorance is fighting back. Call for back up!!! ---
**Author:** ![patteeu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@patteeu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/patteeu)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/116 "2002-12-12T04:00:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Colibri \* > … > With all due respect, **patteeu** , are you _sure_ you want to defend this guy? This poor maligned innocent? Let me start by saying that, generally speaking, I side with the Israeli’s in the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. This, no doubt, affects my perspective just like the opinions of others color theirs. OK, I checked out the original thread and this is what I think. CfW is a defender of the Israeli position in this conflict. The majority of contributors to that thread were sympathetic with the Palestinians. I can understand why someone who understands the history of the phrase “nits make lice” would assume that CfW is making a genocidal reference. But given his clarification in this thread, I don’t think he was. Furthermore, my defense of CfW was initially a defense against what appeared to be a double standard in terms of moderator enforcement of the bulletin board rules. I stand by that defense. CfW was no more outrageous than Shodan who didn’t receive any kind of public warning. If CfW’s comments are genocidal, then many of the Palestinian supporters in the GD’s thread are filled to the brim with anti-semitism. For the record, I don’t think either is the case. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/117 "2002-12-12T04:17:49Z")
_sigh_ **BIG\_DADDY** , I shall now attempt the monumental task of trying to answer you. Sit tight, kiddies, cause this’ll take awhile. > [@](#): > > Shodan, > > You really fire up don’t you? As long as the Palestinians attach bombs to their children and use them for shields they are going to get killed period. I know it’s the Pit, but I’m going to have to ask for a cite for that. (Cite: when you go and look up a reputable source that will confirm your accusation). Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. > [@](#): > > To beat terrorism you have to make it unthinkable. You want to kill 20 people/kids whatever in a bus bomb were going to kill 200 in return. You want to kill 1000? Great we will kill 10,000. But kill who, exactly? The terrorists’ families? Random Palestinians? All that will produce is a domino effect. You will radicalize the remainder of the population. Let me demonstrate: We have Palestinian Terrorist Adam. He is out, terrorizing and whatnot, and this is a bad thing. The Israeli government decides to kill Adam, his brother Non-Terrorist Bob, and his sister Non-Terrorist Candy. What will happen? The surviving relatives of Adam, Bob, and Candy will now have a blood feud with the Israeli government. It doesn’t matter whether or not Adam was in the right. The Israelis have killed family members for no reason other than genetic ties. So then you have the children of Bob and Candy, who were originally Non-Terrorists Dan, Elizabeth, and Fred, who are now triple-pissed at the Israeli government. And for good reason, because the Israeli government killed innocents for no reason other than their family ties. Another problem with this scenario: okay, terrorists kill 20, Israelis kill 200, what if the terrorists decide to similarly step it up and kill 2000? You get in a stupid and bloody war of escalation, where the only sure thing is that innocents will perish. The answer is to have terrorists put on trial for their individual crimes, and for a dialogue between the Israeli government and Palestinians who share the goals of the terrorists without advocating their means. > [@](#): > > Did you hear Osamas last demands? LOL > > Osama’s letter to America… > …in which he tells America what we must do to stop the terrorist attacks… > > The nation must convert to Islam, and other beliefs or philosophies will not be allowed… > > Our system of laws must be based on Islamic principles-woman must wear their burkas, cannot hold jobs, homosexuality must be abolished, no fornication, no loans of any type which have any interest charge at all, etc… > > We must quit supporting the “continuation” of Israel… > > We must leave and stay out of any Muslim country… > > These conditions, and many more, must all be met (no exceptions), or we will all be destroyed… Osama has nothing, repeat, nothing to do with the Israel-Palestine conflict. The Palestinians as a whole could not care less about whether or not America converts to Islam or makes women wear burkas. It’s a total strawman argument. > [@](#): > > Our women must wear Burkas? ROFLMAO Yea OK. > > We are going to negotiate with this piece of crap? No. > [@](#): > > He wants to force his religion on all of us. I say we do exactly the opposite. > > 1. Take over the country What country are you talking about here? Afghanistan? Israel? Palestine? > [@](#): > > 1. Make Burkas illegal Re: First Amendment rights and freedom of religion. Not to mention the fact that Islam has little or nothing to do with the craziness of bin Laden. If the Middle East was Christian he’d be demanding that we all convert to Arab Orthodoxy or something. Islam is not to blame here, and it is stupid to penalize all burka-wearers for the transgressions of a few wackos. > [@](#): > > 1. All women must work unless handicapped. Ah, so there will be sweat shops in your Brave New Middle East, eh? > [@](#): > > 1. Turn all their young hotties into cum guzzling little sluts. Is this serious or not? If not, it’s in very bad taste, and if it is serious you are in need of help this board cannot provide you with. > [@](#): > > Once they experience that they will never go back. Back to what? Hating the US? Practicing Islam? > [@](#): > > Everyone is so angry on this BB. Do any of you get laid? Do you have the ability to attack the subject and not the posters? This is the Pit. Ad hominin attacks are allowed within limits. > [@](#): > > How do you want to deal with terrorism big Gary? See above. Recap: By fairly prosecuting terrorists and working to alleviate the conditions that lead to such fanaticism. > [@](#): > > Somebody killed your family I can guarantee you one damn thing. You wouldn’t want to negotiate with them. That is as accurate a portrayal of the views of most terrorists as I could imagine. The door swings both ways, pal. > [@](#): > > For all of you that don’t think striking back is an appropriate move I give you this: > > 1. Approach dumb rich ignorant student talking about “peace” and saying there should be, “no retaliation.” > 2. Engage in brief conversation, ask if military force is appropriate. > 3. When he says “No,” ask, “Why not?” > 4. Wait until he says something to the effect of, “Because that would just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not cause more violence.” > 5. When he’s in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can. > 6. When he gets back up to up to punch you, point out that it would be a mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would, “be awful and he should not cause more violence.” > 7. Wait until he agrees that he has pledged not to commit additional violence. > 8. Punch him in the face again, harder this time. > Repeat steps 5 through 8 until they understand that sometimes it is necessary to punch back. Straw man yet again. No one that I have seen has advocated the terrorists running rough-shod over Israel. What they _have_ been advocating is an approach that avoids genocide and the death of innocents as much as possible. > [@](#): > > 1. I don’t consider striking somebody back hateful. Stop arguing against things that nobody said! > [@](#): > > 1. Racist? Yea OK Anybody subject to terrorism should have that right not just us. We our a country of many races as well so you that is complete BS. I’m not sure what you’re saying here. Everyone should have the right to what? What country are you talking about? How does the racial/ethnic makeup of that country relate to the Israel-Palestine conflict? > [@](#): > > 1. Genocidal? How so? I never condoned that. Just because I believe in use of force and making terrorism unthinkable does not make me genocidal. The problem is that the methods you advocate would almost certainly result in genocide, whether planned or not. > [@](#): > > In the case of an isolated incident, yes. In the case of having your kids and civilians attacked by organized militant groups, no. So it is acceptable to murder the defenseless and innocent in a wartime situation? Come now. > [@](#): > > Once the general population gets tired of paying the price for what these barbaric morons are doing they will start telling you where they are at and what they are doing. It’s not a nice thing but a necessary thing. It’s not necessary. In fact, it would only result in more people dying. > [@](#): > > Why not, turn into the new age Babylon of the Middle East. The little Muslim Hotties will make more in a night than they would have made in a lifetime and everyone will have a good time. You like girls don’t you TS? > > BIG DADDY > > IF they can do it in Vegas we can do it there!!! I really hope you’re joking here. > [@](#): > > Wolfy, > > I’m just fighting fire with fire. He wants all our women to wear Burkas or he’s going to attack us forever. Well hell that’s easy, eliminate the Burkas, you can always bring them back after you wack the wackos. He, here, is referring to bin Laden. Who has little or no connection to the Palestinian goal of getting their own country (and in some cases, driving Israel into the sea). Drop the burka thing. It’s irrevelent to the discussion at hand. > [@](#): > > Wolfy, that’s not genocide > > ## gen·o·cide ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jn-sd) n. The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group. > > ## [Greek genos, race; see gen- in Indo-European Roots + -cide.] > > geno·cidal (-sdl) adj. > geno·cidal·ly adv. > > I do not want to eliminate an entire race, political or ethinic group. I just said we must smite them 10x But the point is that doing this will, at best, decimate the Palestinian population, and at worst destroy them entirely. And they might just take Israel down with them, depending on how long the escalation matters. A solution doesn’t count if it ends in everyone dying. > [@](#): > > As far as the taking over of the country goes they can always have it back after they have some system plugged in where the people have a say in what happens in their country and the wackos are wacked. Who is they? What country are you referring to? Who is taking over this country? You also seem to be promoting the abolition of “wrong” views (which are views you don’t agree with). If this is untrue, and you are only hoping for a system in which crime is dealt with, then I agree with you. Any tacit support for terrorism in a country should be discouraged; no one is above the law. > [@](#): > > Giraffe, > > I did answer it somewhere but would be glad to repeat it. If it is an isolated incident then it is absolutely not justified. On the other hand if you have a group of militant cowards that prey on citizens and children then that is the only way you can get their people to turn on them and quit harboring them and supporting their needs. The families will change their attitude right away when they realize that they are not walkin away from this with 10k from Saddam and nothing to worry about. Is Saddam even funding victim relief? (If he is, I really doubt it’s on the order of 10k… pesos, maybe.) Also, you are asking for the impossible. It is impossible for a person to become un-related to their family. There is no way the family of a terrorist can stop being the family of a terrorist, and so they are at risk of being stomped on by the Israeli government regardless of their personal views on the situation. > [@](#): > > When they know that the US military will hunt them down and kill them too you watch how things change. What on earth would the US military be doing hunting down Palestinians in Israel? It’s not our fight, man. > [@](#): > > Many of these terrorists do it to take care of their family with that kind of money. Cite? > [@](#): > > That would change right away as well. If you knew there was going to be a serious price to pay for you and yours because of what these knucklheads are doing you are going to be much more willing to turn informant and and/or do what’s necessary to rid yourself of these idiots. I would be more likely to take revenge on the US government for killing people who didn’t do anything wrong. > [@](#): > > It’s not a good or nice thing but is unfortunately necessary. I gotta get out of here for now but thanks for the question. Just for the record, I have no dog in this fight. My post comes off as pro-Palestine, but mainly because I was correcting someone who is heavily pro-Israel. ---
**Author:** ![patteeu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@patteeu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/patteeu)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/118 "2002-12-12T05:28:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by BIG\_DADDY:_ > > Shodan, > > > > You really fire up don’t you? As long as the Palestinians attach bombs to their children and use them for shields they are going to get killed period. > > **I know it’s the Pit, but I’m going to have to ask for a cite for that. (Cite: when you go and look up a reputable source that will confirm your accusation). Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.** Ok, I’ll help you out with that Super\_Gnat. [http://www.etaiwannews.com/Perspective/2002/06/22/1024715764.htm](http://www.etaiwannews.com/Perspective/2002/06/22/1024715764.htm) This article discusses the increasing use of women and children as suicide bombers. Issa Badir is one example, he was 16 when he blew up himself and 2 Israelis. It also indicates that Israeli authorities arrested a 12 year old Palestinian boy who they said was planning an attack. [http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/03/25/1017004766310.html](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/03/25/1017004766310.html) This article describes Saddam Hussein’s $25,000 bounty payable to the family of each Palestinian suicide bomber and indicates that his motivation is to provide “an enticement for others to volunteer for martyrdom in the name of the Palestinian people.” As for the shield comment, IMO it is fair to say that any combatant who hides in the midst of innocent men, women, and children is using those innocents as a shield. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Super Gnat \* > **… The Israelis have killed family members for no reason other than genetic ties.** After busting BIG\_DADDY’s balls for not providing cites, I would have thought that you would be scrupulous about providing cites for your own wild assertions. Guess I was wrong. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Super Gnat:_ > Osama has nothing, repeat, nothing to do with the Israel-Palestine conflict. On a more technical issue, the Palestinians may not give a rip about Usama, but he has adopted their cause as one of his own (even if it is only an attempt to advance his real agenda by using the Palestinians as pawns). In a recent letter to the American people attributed to Usama Bin Laden, he answers the question, “Why are we fighting and opposing you?” His very first answer, answer 1(a), is “You attacked us in Palestine.” He may well be opportunistically taking advantage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but technically I would say that he has something to do with it by his own choice. [http://www.crikey.com.au/columnists/2002/11/29/20021129ossie.html](http://www.crikey.com.au/columnists/2002/11/29/20021129ossie.html) ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/119 "2002-12-12T06:17:19Z")
**patteeu** , thanks for the cites. When I said “Israelis have killed family members for no reason other than genetic ties”, I meant that only within my little example of what would happen if the Israelis followed a 10x policy. I don’t think they have killed people over that kind of thing; but this and this would seem to suggest that people are being targeted who did nothing wrong. “He may well be opportunistically taking advantage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but technically I would say that he has something to do with it by his own choice.” Well, yes, but at the same time I think people can work towards a Israeli-Palestine peace without including bin Laden at all, in the same way that the US could decide on a gay marriage bill without consulting Fred Phelps. For that reason, quoting bin Laden’s stupid demands and equating them with what the Palestinian people want is misinformed, at best. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780/120 "2002-12-12T06:18:28Z")
that should read. “people _have_ been targeted” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-that-was-fucking-helpful/141780.md?page=7)