Now that you've seen it - what do you think of 'The Passion'

There is lots of great commentary here on the movie, so I won’t go over all of that.

I saw the movie and was personally blown away. I cried an awful lot, and I had to look down. However, I felt that it was good. It has made me think about where I am as a Christian, and if i’m doing my job. I now have a better picture of what Christ did for me (and others), so I now look at my surroundings and the way I do and say things differently. I hope many other took away a postive perspective.

I realize it was extremely brutal, but the point is, that is what happened to him. Even if you don’t believe he was divine, you know he was a man. Why make it shorter, just so people aren’t as bothered? It is the truth. I’m also so surprised that people (not necessarily in this thread) are so taken aback at the fact that there were people willing to watch him beaten. Even in our own country (the US) people were recently* subjected to lynchings and other brutal beatings in front of many crowds including children. Either way I was touched. And if it didn’t do anything to non-Christians, I at least hope it helped to strengthen and better Christians.

Jenny*

*recently being last century

There was a kid about that old sitting a couple seats over from me–he seemed to take it all in stride, and was clear-eyed and talkative at the end. I found that profoundly disturbing–moreso then what was on the screen.

I’m conflicted on the issue of the movie devoting so much time to the scourging and other physical punishments–one the one hand, they were certainly horrible. On the other, many people have suffered far worse then Christ: What makes him a moving figure to me isn’t how much he suffered, but what he believed he was suffering for. Save for a one-line flashback to the sermon on the mount, the movie just didn’t have much of that. That’s fine if you’re already fairly familiar with the story, but if you’re not, you’ll come away thinking a better title would be “Sucks to be Jesus!”

Miscellaneous notes:
[ul]
[li]Loved the representation of Satan, except for the shot at the end where it was actually portrayed in Hell. That seemed kind of pedestrian.[/li][li]It was kind of ironic for God to send a crow down to eat the eyeballs of someone who insulted his son, when the son’s message was all about love.[/li][li]I like my Pontius conflicted and my Judas sympathetic: “The Passion” got the former but not the latter.[/li][li]I wonder how historically accurate the treatment of Jesus portrayed in this movie was. It seemed a bit over-the-top, even for the nasty, brutish Romans…[/li][/ul]

I almost want to see the movie simply so I can do that.
:stuck_out_tongue:

I almost want to see it just to do this.
:stuck_out_tongue:

That pretty much sums it up for me.

A few things:

With respect to Pilate, neither the movie nor the scripture deal extensively with Claudia Procula’s influence other than simply to mention it. (Although, in the movie, I liked the fact that she brought linens to Mary.) But from simply the mention, what it says to me is that, despite Pilate’s reputation, his wife likely could have had a tremendous influence on him. The way I’ve always thought of it is that she would have gone on and on about this all morning long. Pilate was brutal, but superstitious. To me, it seems reasonable that he attempted to wash his hands of the whole thing.

With respect to Herod, he didn’t seem effeminate to me; he seemed evil. I’ve been trying to recall what Diogenes mentioned — the boy toy with legs in the background — but I can’t. Of course, I’m not sure I’d recognize one if it were right in front of my face. I did see lots of painted ladies, though, and I assumed that the whole atmosphere was pretty much orgy-ish.

Finally, with respect to Satan and the baby, I saw that as symbolic of Satan preparing to put his own son in power now that God’s son was being destroyed. Although Satan recognized Christ as the son of God, he certainly was not privvy to God’s plan, and had no way of knowing that Christ’s death would be his own (Satan’s) defeat.

Oh, and one last thing… if someone found justification for antisemitism in this movie, they would find it in cloud patterns as well.

Meant to mention before: I too found it eerie that no one — at least that I could hear — talked during the movie. First time for me.

I’m thinking I may be the only person who, when they saw it, didn’t have ANY previews. The lights went down, no advertisments, no trailers, no singing candy.

Just the “Feature Presentation.” Which was odd, since my friend and I were wondering ahead of time what trailers there WOULD be.

All things considered, though, I was waiting for the outtake reel.

I have a question about Herod: in the film, he didn’t seem particularly evil. He refuses to execute Christ. Makes fun of him a little bit, but that’s hardly villainous. Is there a historical context for this character that paints him as a darker figure? It’s not the same Herod who killed all the infants in his kingdom, right? Wasn’t that his dad? I’m asking because, assuming Herod is meant to be gay in this movie, I don’t see how the movie portrays this as being a bad thing.

I don’t know, I thought the book was better. Color me disappointed, but this felt, to me at least, like just another failed attempt at making a decent movie from one of Stephen King’s stories. I had hoped that Mel Gibson would be able to pull it off, but this was just another example of a director focusing too heavily on the horror of King’s work and glossing over the character development and storyline that makes his stories so great. Fuck, why can’t Hollywood understand?
I guess I still have The Shawshank Redemption & The Green Mile to cherish.

Stephen, if you’re out there, I just wanted you to know that you are right not to sell the film rights to the Dark Tower. They’d probably frig that up too!

Stupid hollywood, celluloid-abortion machine…

:slight_smile:

Passion plays are a special case. They begin, typically, with Gethsemane. Knowledge of the characters is assumed.

Correct. Herod “the Great”, rebuilder of the temple and builder of Caesarea and Massada, is the one associated with the Nativity story and the slaughter of the innocents. Christian scripture has absolutely jack good to say about him, and secular history portrays him as a quite violent, cruel character.

The Herod in the Passion story is one of his sons, Herod Antipas. By then he is ruler only over Gallilee, the parent “kingdom” having been split. This is the guy associated with the whole incident with Salome and the head of John the Baptist. So Christian scripture describes him as debauched, decadent, impious. In regular history, he screwed the pooch so badly with being even puppet-king of a small county he got removed from post and country by Rome. His brother Herod Phillipus is mentioned in passing since Antipas stole his wife.

In the next generation, the key name was Herod Agrippa. The first Agrippa, grandson of HtG and nephew of Antipas, is held responsible for the death of one of the apostles named James in the Book of Acts. His son, also H. Agrippa, became a major political player at imperial court level in the reigns of Caligula and Claudius and is treated much more kindly by the Christian authors.

No, that happened at our showing as well. I was actually kind of surprised, since this was a film with a packed house.

There have been many movies that depict stories from the Bible. What sets Passion of the Christ apart is the very narrow focus of the film. A film like The Ten Commandments works as a self-contained story, and can be appreciated by believer and non-believer alike. Passion, on the other hand, is a movie that focuses intensely on a powerful part of the Jesus story that resonates deeply for Christians but is little more than punishment for everyone else.

The Passion Play as a movie
The Passion Play, in and of itself, is soaked in emotion but does not make for a satisfying self-contained movie per se. I think Mel Gibson missed a wonderful (though ambitious) opportunity to create a trilogy that could have been more compelling for both Christian and non-Christian alike. The first film could have set the stage with the life of Jews under Roman rule and focus on the Nativity story. The second film could have focused on the teachings of Jesus and illustrate why this person means so much to so some people, and the danger he represents to the established order, which would lead to the movie we are now talking about, though possibly supplemented with a more thorough resurrection section, instead of the one that was tacked onto the end of the existing movie.

The fact that Gibson already assumes parts 1 & 2 of the story are given, undermines the true impact and resonance of Jesus’ persecution, torture and murder, but such is the choice of the screenwriter and director. So when a screenwriter and director choos to focus on the most horrific and agonizing portions of the Jesus story, what then should one “get” from the movie? The intense focus on the torture Jesus endured would suggest that the viewer is supposed to realize and appreciate just what Jesus went through for mankind. But if this is the extent of the purpose of the film, it excludes everyone who is not Christian from getting anything out of this movie but a 2-hour obsession with sadism.

Faithfulness to the source material
Well, this is the Gospel according to Mel. It agrees with the existing Gospels as much as they agree with one another. Some feature events that are omitted in other ones. Such is true with this movie. In Mel’s account, Jesus fell more than three times, a crucified theif’s eye gets pecked out and focuses on the description of Jesus’ death more than it’s meaning. How accurate is the depiction of Roman torture? I’m not enough of an historian in Roman punishment to answer. I have to rely on others for that kind of detail.

One of the things I most admired in the film is the use of the actual languages of the setting. Unfortunately, some of truth to the setting is undermined by a European-looking Jesus. In my opinion (which I expect would be received with little support), an actor like John Turturro would have made a more believable “looking” Jesus [Insert Big Lewbowski wisecrack here] – having some Jewish looking features (even though the actor is in fact Italian and Catholic). He has the “hair like wool” mentioned in Revelations and whose lean face and long nose still resemble the Turin shroud’s image (for what that’s worth).

Violence and Gore
Gibson rubs the audience’s face in what I assume is the full measure of the Roman era’s capacity for torture and presumably wants to deliver unto his audience a fraction of the torture that was inflicted upon Jesus. I don’t think there is any value of sugar-coating the degree of suffering Jesus went through, but in my opinion, Gibson utilized the violence to make his point, and then cranked it up a notch, so that you would really get his point. The relentless glee that the Roman soldiers had in torturing Jesus was particularly punishing. Some of the violence, brutality and gore was neccessary, some of it was gratuitous. In any other case, I would expect a movie that traded so much on suffering to earn an NC-17 rating.

Anti-Semitism
Take it for what it’s worth that the movie is no more or less anti-Semitical than the Gospels. With the exception of Pilate, each character or group of characters is painted quite one-dimensional. There is the high preist Caiphas, et al. who deign to stamp out the blasphemous threat to their influence. Is this the only instance of the power elite trying to take out threats to their power? Hardly. There is a crowd of Jews, deeply offended by a blasphemer claiming to be the Son of their God, whipped into a frenzy by the high preists. Is this the only instance of bloodthirsty mob mentality ever recorded? Far from it. One could argue (quite successfully) that the most heinous (and equally one-dimensional) portrayal is that of the Roman soldiers whose sadistic glee in torture is on par with that of the Marquis de Sade.

There will always be those people whose pre-existing contempt of other groups will use an event with high potential for controversy such as this movie to further their own agenda. Some Christian fundamentalists may (somehow) see a movie as affirmation for demonization of Jews. Sensitive Jews may see this movie as a symptom that threatens to pull the hearts and minds of the world back to the horror of Nazi Germany.

Which brings me to what I hope is a provoking question: If an unsympathetic portrayal of a group of Jews of the far-distant past neccessarily equals condemnation of Jews in today’s society; does the unanimous portrayal of Nazis as pure evil equal the condemnation of Germans in today’s society?

My final analysis
It’s tough to go into a movie like this without also bringing in the full weight of your belief system. Given this, it was my goal to go into it as objectively as possible and with as few expectations as possible. With that said, the film has two strikes against it: it’s narrow focus relevance almost exclusively to Christians and a gratutious amount of violence and gore. If you are looking for a good film treatment of the Jesus story, stick with the 6-hour made-for TV epic Jesus of Nazareth by Franco Zeffirelli (available on Netflix, if you’re interested.)

Full disclosure
I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school and was an alter-boy. In my late 20’s I began asking questions about the origin of my beliefs, found the answers (or lack therof) wholly unsatisfactory and grew progressively agnostic. Which is where I currently am. If I were to limit my closest friends to no more then ten people, two would be of the Jewish faith. Moreover, Judaism was central in the life of my last girlfriend.

Gratuitous violence? That’s ridiculous. If you thought the flogging seemed to take a long time, imagine yourself at the whip’s tip of it. It goes on and on until you are practically numb. If at the end of it, you thought it was too much, well, that was the point.

The Book of Revelation (1:14) describes the millennial Christ’s hair color, not texture: “his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow.” And since the Shroud of Turin has been shown to be a 14th century fabrication (with European features, to boot), why should Jesus look like that?

Personal info: Married, 31, HS history teacher. Raised Catholic, but have dabbled with the Presbyterians (wife is a PK). Not sure I believe that Jesus was the actual Son of God, but dig the message.

Saw it Sunday, packed house, didn’t notice any kids. Crowd did not seem any more solemn after the fact (that I noticed).

I noticed the historical mistakes (language, carrying the entire cross etc.) and pointed them out to my wife. I am somewhat concerned that my students that see this will take it as fact instead of an artistic interpretation.

That said it was a great movie. The slow motion was a little overdone, and the credits should have rolled before the resurrection scene.

Watching this, and seeing why (at leasty biblically) Christ was put to death, I cannot see how true Christians are not the most religiously tolerant group of people on earth. Too many forget that Christ was killed BECAUSE he went agianst the established religion. To accept Christ’s divergence from Judaism, and deny the rights of others to diverge from Christianity is blatant hypocrisy.

Finally saw it Sat. night. Truly don’t see how the Jews were depicted any differently than they were in Jesus of Nazareth, et al.

Ultimately, this is a good, occasionally great film made by a Catholic for Catholics. If you weren’t raised with that peculiar Catholic sensibility, it may not speak to you on a spiritual level at all. But I wouldn’t presume to criticize a Muslim filmammker who chose to film a graphic depiction of some story from the Koran that’s crucial to the his/her faith.

:confused:
The death is meaningless to Christianity without the resurrection.

OK, sure, but I really wasn’t there for a Sunday School class, I was there to be entertained for 2 hours.

Understood, but even an old atheist like me knows about the Ressurection. I’m sure most Christians have an idea about it too. It doesn’t have to be shown.

I think the point (which I agree with), was that the Ressurection shown in the film was completely anticlimactic. Gibson had an ideal ending with the Pieta shot – mother Mary looking out at the audience, holding the dead Jesus in her arms. Fade to black. Perfect ending. The Resurrection scene seemed tacked on and cheesy, and many people have said so.

Looking at it as a movie, the ending without showing the Resurrection would have been more dramatically satisfying. It wasn’t necessary to show it.