# Now that's a whole nother matter! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 4, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302 "2008-01-04T19:16:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/1 "2008-01-04T19:16:14Z")
Last night at dinner one of my kids brought it to my attention that I had just uttered the above statement, and asked if “nother” was a word. I was somewhat surprised to realize I had been unintentionally habitually using a nonexistent word. I usually consider myself pretty aware of word usage and grammar, and tho I do not always insist on “correct” grammar and usage, I generally think that I am at least aware of instances in which I depart from generally accepted usage. Just wondered how many of you might use “nother” similarly to I, and/or if there are other mangled word usages you habitually use. Might “a whole nother” be a Chicago/midwest thing, or is it more widespread? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/2 "2008-01-04T19:21:21Z")
Do I say that? Abso-freakin’-lutely! ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/3 "2008-01-04T19:40:53Z")
How is a contraction not a word? 'nother =another Altough saing “a whole anouther” is not correct, should be ,a whole other. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/4 "2008-01-04T19:47:56Z")
About the regionality – I use it too, and I’m about as far as possible from Chicago… More to the point, I learned my English in the Boston area, from a Bostonian mother. So it isn’t just Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![Sprockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Sprockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sprockets)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/5 "2008-01-04T19:51:19Z")
Jesus F-ing Christ, I say it too! ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/6 "2008-01-04T19:52:14Z")
[QUOTE=Glazer] How is a contraction not a word? 'nother =another [/QUOTE] Yes, but you could just as (if not slightly more) easily say “whole _other_ matter” and be perfectly correct. I first recall hearing “whole 'nother” in commercials for Winchester “little cigars” (see the headline and last paragraph on [this page from a 1972 article).](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,943407-1,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/7 "2008-01-04T20:09:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, but you could just as (if not slightly more) easily say “whole other matter” and be perfectly correct. Yup, as you can see I was adding that as you were writeing. :smack: I hit submit instead of go advanced :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/8 "2008-01-04T20:13:08Z")
I was having a hard time coming up with an appropriate usage that I was contracting. The closest I came up with was “another whole matter” - which isn’t quite right. Or “a whole different matter,” which - of course - uses a whole nother word instead of nother. Perhaps I should have said, “And now, for something completely different.” ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/9 "2008-01-04T20:25:35Z")
A linguist will be along at some point to give us the correct terminology, but it’s a matter of inserting a modifier into the middle of a word, instead of onto one end or the other. This “middle” insertion is fairly common in German, for instance, and fairly uncommon in English – other than “a whole nother,” “abso-freakin’-lutely,” and a few other informal/colloquial expressions. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/10 "2008-01-04T20:39:30Z")
Yes, except, grammatically, that leading “n” shouldn’t be there. Another == “an other.” So it really **should** be “a whole other.” Compare “An Orange,” “A Clockwork Orange” (and not “A Clockwork norange.”) Why the “n” stays put is the interesting part. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/11 "2008-01-04T20:49:06Z")
But it\* isn’t \* a missplit “an/other,” it’s an insertion into “another.” ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/12 "2008-01-04T20:53:06Z")
Sometimes you do something even though you know it’s wrong. Feels good, doesn’t it? That’s why I use the phrase “a whole nother”. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/13 "2008-01-04T20:57:17Z")
[QUOTE=twickster] But it\* isn’t \* a missplit “an/other,” it’s an insertion into “another.” [/QUOTE] Yes. I look it at also a a form of infixing (like your initial post in this thread). edit: Hmm, upon Googling, it appears that regarding “whole” as an infix into “another” is not a popular idea among linguists. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/14 "2008-01-04T21:00:55Z")
Why the “nother” rather than “other”? As previously said, because the word “another” is split by the word “whole”. I guess it’d be more accurate to write it as “a-whole-nother”. According to Wiki, it’s an example of dystmesis. [Tmesis - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tmesis#Tmesis_in_English) ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/15 "2008-01-04T21:27:16Z")
Tmesis! I knew there was a word for it! ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/16 "2008-01-04T22:33:08Z")
Maybe I’m disremembering it, but I think there was a Texas tourism campaign based on, “It’s like a whole 'nother country.” ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/17 "2008-01-04T22:35:36Z")
I say it all the time. I catch myself, but it’s a hard habit to break. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/18 "2008-01-04T22:42:32Z")
[QUOTE=Speaker for the Dead] I say it all the time. I catch myself, but it’s a hard habit to break. [/QUOTE] I don’t think there’s any reason to break the habit. I like the sound of the phrase, and there’s no equivalent phrase that sounds good to me. “A whole other” sounds awkward and uncolloquial. The simple “another” doesn’t have the same emphasis/impact. Fuck it. Just use “a whole nother” loudly and proudly (except in very formal situations.) ---
**Author:** ![brad\_d](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@brad\_d](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brad_d)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-thats-a-whole-nother-matter/432302/19 "2008-01-04T23:05:24Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] Maybe I’m disremembering it, but I think there was a Texas tourism campaign based on, “It’s like a whole 'nother country.” [/QUOTE] I remember the campaign, too, but I’m reasonably certain they used proper English: “It’s like a whole other country.” It stuck in my mind precisely because of the topic we’re discussing here: Even though I knew their usage was correct, it sounded funny to my ears. Apparently, they’re still using the slogan. You can get a [specialty license plate](http://rts.texasonline.state.tx.us/NASApp/txdotrts/SpecialPlateOrderServlet?grpid=60&pltid=116) with the phrase (correctly) printed on it. I _still_ think it sounds funny. I often say it (but never write it) in the colloquial way.