# Now the Republicans are going after Public Broadcast Funding **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739 "2005-06-17T19:30:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/141 "2005-06-18T21:58:58Z")
> [@UnwrittenNocturne](#): > > Let’s say there is a family. Mom, Dad and three kids. The kids are aged 19, 15 and 8. Now, let us also say that the 8 year old falls ill (or whatever). Should this kid, if Mom and Dad do not wish to, be forced to pay for his/her own care? Should Mom and Dad, who are earning more than the child, pick up the tab - by means of force if needed? > > What makes you think that society as a whole is much different? What makes you think society is the same? I ABSOLUTELY contend that society as a whole is much different, because it is. While people are motivated to care for their families, they are not generally motivated to extend that same care to the nation and every person in it. And when you impose that level of caring by law, you weaken the incentive of people to achieve, and you weaken the country as a whole. Whereas if you left people alone to prosper, the effect of that is that EVERYONE rises. > [@](#): > > If you ever get your way, if the society you envisage ever comes to pass, I will fight it. I will fight everything it stands for. By whatever means seem necessary. it is not at that state yet, but there is a movement (and I think you are part of it consciously or not) that would have us living that way. That’s why we have a democracy. Fight away. Just respect the tenets of that democracy. Fight to change the minds of the people, fight to persuade the legislature… that’s all good. Complain about the system when things don’t go your way, and piously support it when they do? No. > [@](#): > > You, on the other hand, seem motivated only by an attitude of “Fuck you Jack, I’,m all right”. I am aware you do charitable work, but wonder if your motivation is only to assauge your conscience. My conscience is in great shape. Thanks. > [@](#): > > You seem to agree with the ‘trickle-down’ theory. The only thing that trickles is the lard dripping from the jowls of the rich, as they suck ther fat and lick the gravy of their paper profits. I do believe in the trickle-down theory, and I don’t agree it’s as ineffective as you say. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/142 "2005-06-18T22:03:26Z")
**UnwrittenNocturne** , I could have told you **Bricker** worships The Process as if it were a revelation from Og Himself. If the majority of the American citizenry voted to ratify an amendment outlawing homosexuality on pain of torture and death by stoning, **Bricker** would shrug and say, “Will of the majority”. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/143 "2005-06-18T22:07:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What I don’t agree with is the notion that we “owe” society in some nebulous, inchoate fashion. We may choose to pay for public vaccinations, not because we owe society, but because we regard the cost of vaccinations a reasonable price to pay for public health. We may choose to pay for public education, because we regard that expenditure as more likely to produce more wealth-generating individuals down the line… not because we “owe” anyone an education. No, you’re not going to be allowed to get away with this. I’m not that stupid. You owe society every single day of your life. You are protected by the police; your garbage is picked up by the Dept of Sanitation or by a contractor hired by your municipality, and paid for by your taxes. Your child/children is educated by the society, regardless of whether you send that child to public school or not; society is more than just the government. The rule of law you take for granted is given you by this society. The currency in your pocket is a product of a social contract in which it has been decided that that particular piece of paper is good as a means of exchange. You owe society in so many different ways for so many different things that I really have no idea how people on the right, or libertarians, live with themselves for their ignorance, arrogance, stupidity, and selfishness. To be one of you you would have to deny, every minute of every day, that you are a member of a society that looks after your welfare and that of your family. The alternative is the anarchy of the rule of the strongest; feudalism in the old days, tyranny in our day. You are advocating tyranny. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/144 "2005-06-18T22:07:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. He commanded us PERSONALLY to dig deep. He did not tell you to dig deep into your next-door neighbor’s pocket. But you’re not whining about your neighbor’s pocket. You’re whining about _yours_. So let’s not portray this as anything other than your own selfishness at work. You don’t really care about your neighbor, let alone his pocket. 'Cause if you did, you wouldn’t keep comparing armed robbery\* to services that help your neighbor. Sure you give to charity. Gold star for you! But for someone who claims the philanthropic high-ground, you seem extra convinced that poor people deserve to be poor and the rich deserve to be rich. Makes me wonder why you even bother with charity, if your outlook is like that. - This is not to say you can’t disagree with the way tax dollars are spent on welfare and still be a caring person, but it _is_ possible to dislike a certain policy without calling it a crime. Just like you can have a legitimate beef with someone without calling them a Nazi. And that’s the problem with Liberitarians: they don’t get that rather simple concept. Those guys throw the words “coercion” and “extortion” and “mugging” around like punctuation marks, seemingly unaware how **shrill and hysterical** they sound when they do so. If only they would realize reasoned discourse usually eschews hyperbole , then _maybe_ that pipe dream of a party could finally get some traction. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/145 "2005-06-18T22:08:00Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > **UnwrittenNocturne** , I could have told you **Bricker** worships The Process as if it were a revelation from Og Himself. If the majority of the American citizenry voted to ratify an amendment outlawing homosexuality on pain of torture and death by stoning, **Bricker** would shrug and say, “Will of the majority”. I want to amend this myself to note that **Bricker** would most likely be appalled at the content of that amendment, consider it a very bad idea, and try like hell to smuggle as many of his gay friends and relative to Canada as possible. He would still, however, consider it a right and proper thing as long as it was passed in the fashion prescribed by the Constitution. **Bricker** is, in my opinion, not a homophobe. He’s a stiff-necked process-worshipper and can be a jackass at times, but he’s not a homophobe. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/146 "2005-06-18T22:08:02Z")
Did I miss the poll that shows the majority of Americans are against government funding of the CPB? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/147 "2005-06-18T22:11:28Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > This is not to say you can’t disagree with the way tax dollars are spent on welfare and still be a caring person, but it is possible to dislike a certain policy without calling it a crime. Just like you can have a legitimate beef with someone without calling them a Nazi. And that’s the problem with Liberitarians: they don’t get that rather simple concept. Those guys throw the words “coercion” and “extortion” and “mugging” around like punctuation marks, seemingly unaware how **shrill and hysterical** they sound when they do so. If only they would realize reasoned discourse usually eschews hyperbole , then maybe that pipe dream of a party could finally get some traction. This deserves to be in bigger font. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/148 "2005-06-18T22:15:18Z")
> [@pantom](#): > > No, you’re not going to be allowed to get away with this. I’m not that stupid. > You owe society every single day of your life. You are protected by the police; your garbage is picked up by the Dept of Sanitation or by a contractor hired by your municipality, and paid for by your taxes. Your child/children is educated by the society, regardless of whether you send that child to public school or not; society is more than just the government. The rule of law you take for granted is given you by this society. The currency in your pocket is a product of a social contract in which it has been decided that that particular piece of paper is good as a means of exchange. You owe society in so many different ways for so many different things that I really have no idea how people on the right, or libertarians, live with themselves for their ignorance, arrogance, stupidity, and selfishness. To be one of you you would have to deny, every minute of every day, that you are a member of a society that looks after your welfare and that of your family. > The alternative is the anarchy of the rule of the strongest; feudalism in the old days, tyranny in our day. You are advocating tyranny. Of course, you’re right that society provides benefits. It seems to me that each person enjoys those benefits equally. Why is it, then, that we ask some people to pay more for the exact same benefits than others? I do not object to paying for what I get. I don’t even object for paying for services I may not actually get, like police, because it’s necessary to pay to have a police force in place, even if I personally never call the police. So I’m with you there. These things, cost, and we all must pay for them. Only why should I pay more than someone else, and less than still another person? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/149 "2005-06-18T22:17:57Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > You are really full of it, **Bricker**. Not only in calling **elucidator** a thief… Oh, that’s OK. Got a lot of faults, its a long list, but “oversensitive” ain’t on it. Besides, I made a comment comparing **Bricker** to a lawyer, and what’s “thief” next to that? ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/150 "2005-06-18T22:31:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Only why should I pay more than someone else, and less than still another person? Because if you make more, you owe more to the society that made that possible. Within reason, of course, but unless you’re completely dense, it should be obvious that a richer person will be able to pay more for fire protection than a poorer person, even though both will benefit from the fire department equally if their house catches on fire. Fire trucks cost, and are a fixed cost. Therefore, the cost for such a piece of infrastructure must, if society is to afford it, be paid for more out of the pocket of a rich man than out of the pocket of a poor man. Ditto for an Abrams tank, a police car, or an elementary school. I would think this kind of thing would be obvious. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/151 "2005-06-18T22:32:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …The relaity-based community doesn’t seem to be winning elections lately. What’s up with that? Hmmmm. Been watching them poll numbers lately? Whaddaya think, approval rating will bottom out at 40%? 35%? Surely not 30%? Whaddaya think? Election held today, GeeDubya against, say, CarrotTop? ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/152 "2005-06-18T22:36:37Z")
I still have a hundred paper slip bet the 'Pubbies get their asses handed to them in '08 with **Mr. Bricker**. My politeness towards him will rise in proportion to how close we get to '08, as I fully expect to collect on that bet, and as I will have a son in college, I’ll need every penny I can get. Between Dubya, DeLay, and Santorum, it’s a slam dunk. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/153 "2005-06-18T23:15:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Just keep your greedy, thieving hands out of my pocket, bucko, and I’ll be happy. Your stance is much more nuanced than this quote, **Bricker** , but it’s a handy springboard for my reaction. Just sayin’ I’m not going for a cheap shot here… The thread drift about charity work didn’t really wander all that far afield. Your example reminded me of a point in Peter Robinson’s It’s My Party, an admittedly light-hearted look at the GOP by a firm loyalist. (Think of him as P.J. O’Rourke Lite. _Very_ lite–with pop spelling entirely intentional.) In his defense of neocon thought, he glided past care what society owes to the unfortunate with a vague assertion that religious charities should take care of all that. I was more than a bit dumbfounded for several reasons, not the least because the tie between religion and care seemed so antithetical to conservative values. I don’t underrate the huge good religous charities do. Two Catholic charities are housed within several blocks of my house, and they work wonders–without asking or caring the faith of those who need them. But they’re also perpetually underfunded and understaffed. They can barely scratch the surface of what’s needed. It seems to me the neocon definition of ‘society’ has narrowed down to "shouldn’t have to pay a dime toward anything I don’t personally approve of’. That’s stupid. And unworkable. There can’t be referenda on every tiny, picky little thing–and that’s about where PBS ranks in terms of the feds gushing money. Taking aim at PBS is stupid because it’s so transparently _petty_. PBS is chump change outta what Big Brother yanks out of my paycheck. It’s a shell game; lookee! over _there_. (_Whisk_ goes the payoff with the other hand.) I loathe the blatant, irresponsible waste in goverment. Talk about squandered resources. I’m just sick and tired of a political approach that amounts to little more than, “Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!” A political misfit without a home, Veb ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/154 "2005-06-18T23:22:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Hmmmm. Been watching them poll numbers lately? Whaddaya think, approval rating will bottom out at 40%? 35%? Surely not 30%? > > Whaddaya think? Election held today, GeeDubya against, say, CarrotTop? Where’s your bet, big man? There was similat nonsense from you before November '04. But THIS time, you’re right, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/155 "2005-06-18T23:25:44Z")
> [@pantom](#): > > Because if you make more, you owe more to the society that made that possible. > Within reason, of course, but unless you’re completely dense, it should be obvious that a richer person will be able to pay more for fire protection than a poorer person, even though both will benefit from the fire department equally if their house catches on fire. Fire trucks cost, and are a fixed cost. Therefore, the cost for such a piece of infrastructure must, if society is to afford it, be paid for more out of the pocket of a rich man than out of the pocket of a poor man. Ditto for an Abrams tank, a police car, or an elementary school. > I would think this kind of thing would be obvious. What kind of pricing model is that? I don’t have to certify my income before the store figures out what to charge me for groceries. I don’t pay on a sliding scale for my large buttered popcorn at the movies. Of course, I am ABLE to pay more for those than others. But I don’t. Why should the police car cost society in a way that my personal car doesn’t cost me? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/156 "2005-06-18T23:27:56Z")
> [@pantom](#): > > Because if you make more, you owe more to the society that made that possible. And THIS would be true only if society somehow decided to give me more. What I earn, I earn because someone is willing to pay me. Freely. You view my salary as a gift from society, with some sort of reciprocal obligation. Why? ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/157 "2005-06-18T23:29:07Z")
Really, if it’s not obvious I’m not going to waste my time explaining it to you. It would have to start all the way back with the whole concept of two plus two equalling four instead of, say, twenty four. I really don’t have that kind of time. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/158 "2005-06-18T23:31:17Z")
That was directed at your previous post, obviously. To the latter one, no, I don’t see it that way, any more than I would see mine that way. But the fact that you have attained the success that you have means you do owe more, as a simple matter of, as Socrates would have put it, geometrical, or proportional, justice. I’m beginning to realize why Plato insisted that his students learn geometry before they could do philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/159 "2005-06-18T23:31:26Z")
> [@pantom](#): > > Really, if it’s not obvious I’m not going to waste my time explaining it to you. It would have to start all the way back with the whole concept of two plus two equalling four instead of, say, twenty four. > I really don’t have that kind of time. I agree it all starts at the beginning. With a little concept called “ownership.” I own what I earn. Society does not. What I earn is what others agree to pay me for services, in a free and uncoerced transaction. That’s 2. Plus 2. And it equals 4. I assume the other twenty in your example is people who don’t earn but who I am required to support. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739/160 "2005-06-18T23:33:27Z")
> [@pantom](#): > > That was directed at your previous post, obviously. > To the latter one, no, I don’t see it that way, any more than I would see mine that way. But the fact that you have attained the success that you have means you do owe more, as a simple matter of, as Socrates would have put it, geometrical, or proportional, justice. > I’m beginning to realize why Plato insisted that his students learn geometry before they could do philosophy. Prove it. You have made an assertion – a quite incredible one. What is your evidence? On what do you rely to make this statement of fact? By analogy, I say you’re demanding that Bill Gates pay $160 for a small fries order at McDonalds. Where does it end? And more importantly, where does it start? What is the authority on which you base this assertion? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-the-republicans-are-going-after-public-broadcast-funding/308739.md?page=9)