# Now they want to ban the sale of pointed kitchen knives in the UK to reduce knife crime. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 10, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606 "2019-10-10T20:32:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/61 "2019-10-11T17:20:57Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > I had no idea and will remember this in the future. Will you? Starting threads based on disreputable right wing glurge sites is kind of your jam. > [@Scientists Who Are Actually Stupid](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-who-are-actually-stupid/744306/1): > > Courtesy of Breitbart. I know, red flags go up immediately. > > The first one is on [Neil deGrasse Tyson](http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2015/12/21/scientists-who-are-actually-really-stupid-1-neil-degrasse-tyson/). > > The next on [Bill Nye](http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/01/19/scientists-actually-really-stupid-2-bill-nye/). > > Are these just hit jobs or is there some truth to them? I got this from a very liberal friend of mine who just happens to have a PhD in EE and he seems to agree. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/62 "2019-10-11T18:32:47Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Will you? > > Starting threads based on disreputable right wing glurge sites is kind of your jam. Knock it off. If you want to call out other posters go play in the Pit. It’s not appropriate for this forum. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/63 "2019-10-11T18:45:26Z")
I find myself wondering, regarding the massive and shocking number of knife crimes that are taking place, how many of those are kitchen knives, and how many of them are pocket knives? I mean, sure, nobody’s going to be happy about their pocket knives being pointless (heh), but I also have a hard time seeing the upswing in teen gangbanger stabbings being carried out with knives whose blades don’t fold away or come with sturdy portable sheathes. So are we really talking about kitchen knives here? ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/64 "2019-10-11T18:57:46Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Will you? > > Starting threads based on disreputable right wing glurge sites is kind of your jam. I was upfront about the initial Breitbart post. Thought it was an interesting story. As for The Blaze selection, it was purely chance. I simply picked the first site I saw on the subject. I had no idea of its reputation. Two times I’ve posted from right wing sites and one was by accident. Hardly a pattern. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/65 "2019-10-11T19:11:09Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I find myself wondering, regarding the massive and shocking number of knife crimes that are taking place, how many of those are kitchen knives, and how many of them are pocket knives? > > I mean, sure, nobody’s going to be happy about their pocket knives being pointless (heh), but I also have a hard time seeing the upswing in teen gangbanger stabbings being carried out with knives whose blades don’t fold away or come with sturdy portable sheathes. So are we really talking about kitchen knives here? It’s a good question, and I tried to Google it. Instead of an answer, I did find [this](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42749089) BBC article on it. Some interesting graphs in there, plus this gem: > [@](#): > > Most violent attacks involve no weapons > Use of weapons in violent incidents, England and Wales, year ending March 2018 > > Although knife crime is on the increase, it should be seen in context. It’s relatively unusual for a violent incident to involve a knife, and rarer still for someone to need hospital treatment. > > Most violence is caused by people hitting, kicking, shoving or slapping someone, sometimes during a fight and often when they’re drunk; the police figures on violence also include crimes of harassment and stalking. > > The Crime Survey for England and Wales, which includes offences that aren’t reported to police, indicates that overall levels of violence have fallen by about a quarter since 2013. I’m wondering how they will ban hands and fists. Should be interesting. I also saw the chart on crime level, and basically while it’s certainly up wrt knife crime, it’s actually not at an all time peak (which was something I read or heard somewhere else, but turns out isn’t true). Also, the numbers of folks actually killed is pretty small, as noted earlier. It probably seems really high, for the UK, but we are talking about less than a 1000 people a year…actually, a third that. The number of folks who die from, oh, say alcohol in the UK is a fuck ton higher…it’s actually higher, per capita, than in the US. THAT seems a bigger danger than taking the points off of kitchen knives. My WAG though is basically what you said…this is probably not actual kitchen knives being used, more like knives with sheaths or knives with folding blades, as it seems most of the knife attacks are actually criminal activity for the purpose of robbery. That’s backed up by the stats in the article I linked too as well. There was, I think, a Guardian article linked to earlier (or that I read when I was doing some searching on this) that also was really good and got into some of the complexity of this and, basically, how the proposed (I guess not proposed anymore per this thread) ban won’t really address much of the underlying issues of why this is happening and why it’s increased. BTW, someone mentioned police above, and that’s also in the linked BBC article. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/66 "2019-10-11T19:41:55Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > For pills, a couple thousand a year deliberate overdoses, and another order of magnitude accidental overdoses. There were over 22,000 cases of children overdosing on OTC painkillers between 1996 and 1999 alone. Still seem absurd? Is that unique to the UK? I’m just a bit baffled as to why other countries haven’t gone down the same road of restricting acetaminophen/paracetamol like the UK has. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/67 "2019-10-11T22:55:39Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Shh! We don’t want the criminals to find out about that. fortunately criminals are too stupid to use the blade part of the knife to cut through the carotid artery. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/68 "2019-10-11T23:39:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > fortunately criminals are too stupid to use the blade part of the knife to cut through the carotid artery. Sure, you’d say that, but you know how to make a blade out of duct tape. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/69 "2019-10-12T06:07:54Z")
Have they classified them as assault knives yet? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/70 "2019-10-12T06:16:06Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Is that unique to the UK? I’m just a bit baffled as to why other countries haven’t gone down the same road of restricting acetaminophen/paracetamol like the UK has. My impression (and I confess that I’ve been too lazy to double-check this) is that there was an EU initiative to require blister packaging for most or all pills and tablets. All my medications come like that. My guess is that there may have been other considerations like hygiene and contamination risks if there’s manual handling at the point of sale, and also the manufacturers wanting to make sure that all suppliers faced the same sort of packaging costs, with no-one tempted to cut corners. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/71 "2019-10-12T06:27:58Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Have they classified them as assault knives yet? Sold at the corner drug store next to the Ronco chop-o-matic and assault pill containers. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/72 "2019-10-12T07:19:35Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > How about it, culinary mavens, can you do without knife points in your kitchen? No. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/73 "2019-10-12T08:05:14Z")
One more thing about paracetamol(acetaminophen): I think the suicide-prevention measure was not the blister packaging alone but to limit the number you can buy OTC at any one time. Blister packaging certainly makes it easier to have packets for only a few days’ short-term pain relief at a time. If you try to stock up on a lot, the pharmacist in charge will be called in and will probably tell you to go to your GP for a proper assessment of what you need. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/74 "2019-10-12T09:24:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Sold at the corner drug store next to the Ronco chop-o-matic and assault pill containers. What is legislated against in the UK is > [@](#): > > the weapon sometimes known as a “zombie knife”, “zombie killer knife” or “zombie slayer knife”, being a blade with— > > (i)a cutting edge; > > (ii)a serrated edge; and > > (iii)images or words (whether on the blade or handle) that suggest that it is to be used for the purpose of violence. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/75 "2019-10-12T09:26:21Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > For pills, a couple thousand a year deliberate overdoses, and another order of magnitude accidental overdoses. There were over 22,000 cases of children overdosing on OTC painkillers between 1996 and 1999 alone. Still seem absurd? Yeah? Smoking kills about 120000 brits _a year._ Not banned innit? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/76 "2019-10-12T11:00:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah? Smoking kills about 120000 brits _a year._ > > Not banned innit? In many places, yes, and some forms of cigarette and tobacco are illegal to sell. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/77 "2019-10-12T12:21:53Z")
Grapefruit spoons will be the next implement to be banned, mark my words, saving who knows how many British eyes. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/78 "2019-10-12T15:07:32Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I have no views on this new “no points” initiative or how much actual traction it has. I will point out, however, that the Republican narrative about how “the UK banned guns and now everyone is getting stabbed” is deliberately and fundamentally misleading. The current issue isn’t the lack of guns; it’s the lack of police. And I’m going to say this again: THE GUN BAN WORKS. And the majority of British people, right and left, look at the US and say “Thank god we’re not that stupid.” > > But if you want to call it “baby-proofing”, go right ahead. You know who baby-proof things? Responsible adults. You know who cry and throw tantrums if they’re not allowed to have things they want, even if they’re overtly bad for them or even dangerous? Babies. QFT. Well said, and bears repeating. Just as a matter of clarity, though, one might note that the term “gun ban” tends to reflect the Republican/NRA narrative rather than the reality, since the UK hasn’t actually banned guns, but rather has chosen to regulate them, and yes, it works. Short-barreled handguns are effectively banned for all practical purposes, but members of the public can own [a wide range of rifles and shotguns](https://www.businessinsider.com/guns-you-can-legally-buy-in-the-uk-2016-4) subject to appropriate licensing requirements. Which kind of puts the kibosh on the idea of any kind of knife regulation being the next stage of a “slippery slope”. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/79 "2019-10-12T16:04:02Z")
AIUI, there are two main differences between our approach to gun regulation and yours: - we leave it to local police to enforce the general principles of the law (must have a good reason to have a gun, must be a fit and proper person, must keep it securely), in the light of government guidelines on the details, rather than establishing a general right and then trying to tie down the details in legislation - it has been established public policy in the guidelines, since 1936, that self-defence isn’t a valid reason to have a gun (except for specific people in Northern Ireland) I still don’t understand why, if the Second Amendment to your constution is so sacred in order to allow the people to resist tyranny, the rest of the constitution is considered so faulty as to allow a tyrannical government to take over in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/80 "2019-10-12T16:23:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah? Smoking kills about 120000 brits _a year._ > > Not banned innit? Brilliant point. Let’s ban smoking altogether. It’ll save millions of lives, sure. But more importantly, it will finally put a stop to an entirely irrelevant argument in these discussions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606.md?page=5)