# Now they want to ban the sale of pointed kitchen knives in the UK to reduce knife crime. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 10, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606 "2019-10-10T20:32:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/81 "2019-10-12T17:23:36Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > QFT. Well said, and bears repeating. > > Just as a matter of clarity, though, one might note that the term “gun ban” tends to reflect the Republican/NRA narrative rather than the reality, since the UK hasn’t actually banned guns, but rather has chosen to regulate them, and yes, it works. Short-barreled handguns are effectively banned for all practical purposes, but members of the public can own [a wide range of rifles and shotguns](https://www.businessinsider.com/guns-you-can-legally-buy-in-the-uk-2016-4) subject to appropriate licensing requirements. Which kind of puts the kibosh on the idea of any kind of knife regulation being the next stage of a “slippery slope”. You’re argument changes when the words “in self defense” are applied. The UK has effectively banned guns for this purpose. But you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/82 "2019-10-12T18:31:44Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Brilliant point. Let’s ban smoking altogether. It’ll save millions of lives, sure. But more importantly, it will finally put a stop to an entirely irrelevant argument in these discussions. So, banning acetaminophen wasnt irrelevant ? However it _is_ relevant. If you are gonna have a nanny state that \*really \*wants to save it’s citizens, why not take the big step? **But they dont.** It’s all hypocritical political posturing. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/83 "2019-10-12T19:47:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You’re argument changes when the words “in self defense” are applied. The UK has effectively banned guns for this purpose. You can use guns for self-defense in the UK. What make’s you think you can’t? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/84 "2019-10-12T20:12:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, banning acetaminophen wasnt irrelevant ? > > However it _is_ relevant. If you are gonna have a nanny state that \*really \*wants to save it’s citizens, why not take the big step? > > **But they dont.** It’s all hypocritical political posturing. Different things created and used for different purposes are treated and regulated differently. Just another of the many things that shouldn’t need saying in these discussions but unavoidably need repeating. Question for you: When does a state become a “Nanny state”? Is it when it creates laws and regulations concerning the safety and welfare of its citizens? Or does it become a nanny state when it regulates your favorite toys? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/85 "2019-10-12T22:09:33Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You can use guns for self-defense in the UK. What make’s you think you can’t? I think what he means, in completely hyperbolic and unjustifiable reasoning, is that it’s difficult to obtain a firearm license for the sole purpose of self defense. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/86 "2019-10-12T22:26:05Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > … > > Question for you: When does a state become a “Nanny state”? Is it when it creates laws and regulations concerning the safety and welfare of its citizens? Or does it become a nanny state when it regulates your favorite toys? If they regulate D&D books and figures, then _yes,_ it _is_ a nanny state. 😛 Nanny states take away too many freedoms in exchange for a sense of security. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/87 "2019-10-12T22:33:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If they regulate D&D books and figures, then _yes,_ it _is_ a nanny state. 😛 > > Nanny states take away too many freedoms in exchange for a sense of security. That’s an imprecise definition. I think the laws and organizations that were set up in the US after 9/11 definitely gave up freedoms for a sense of security but not a single person I remember complained about a “nanny state”. Nanny state is purely used by people who think the new restrictions are silly. So a gun enthusiast like you might think a gun ban is nannying but be fine with no liquids going through airport security. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/88 "2019-10-12T22:56:46Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That’s an imprecise definition. I think the laws and organizations that were set up in the US after 9/11 definitely gave up freedoms for a sense of security\*\* but not a single person I remember complained about a “nanny state”\*\*. Nanny state is purely used by people who think the new restrictions are silly. So a gun enthusiast like you might think a gun ban is nannying but be fine with no liquids going through airport security. Bolding mine. Maybe we didn’t call it “nanny state” but there were a great many of us who were extremely concerned about losing freedoms in the name of “security”. And still are. One does not need to be a “gun enthusiast” (or “knife enthusiast” for that matter) to be concerned about laws restricting our freedom to hunt or defend our homes or cut up our steak. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/89 "2019-10-12T22:56:54Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That’s an imprecise definition. I think the laws and organizations that were set up in the US after 9/11 definitely gave up freedoms for a sense of security but not a single person I remember complained about a “nanny state”. Nanny state is purely used by people who think the new restrictions are silly. So a gun enthusiast like you might think a gun ban is nannying but be fine with no liquids going through airport security. Where did you get the idea I was a “gun enthusiast”?😕 I support most gun control laws that are within the purview of the Constitution. Some things, like “red flag” laws can be good or bad- if the ACLU sez that the law is bad as it doesnt give due process, I agree with the ACLU. Do _you_ think the ACLU is wrong when they say a law is bad as it doesnt give proper due process? And TSA is security theater. We should do it like Israel does. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/90 "2019-10-12T22:59:07Z")
_muses_ I might buy a Kinder Egg tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/91 "2019-10-13T16:49:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If they regulate D&D books and figures, then _yes,_ it _is_ a nanny state. 😛 Can you buy leaded figures in the US, or are they now pewter or plastic only? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/92 "2019-10-13T19:07:55Z")
> [@Teuton](#): > > Can you buy leaded figures in the US, or are they now pewter or plastic only? Pewter & plastic but plenty of the old lead ones available on eBay, etc. **CarnalK** - you didnt answer my question. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/93 "2019-10-13T19:50:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > **CarnalK** - you didnt answer my question. I’m not **CarnaK** , but as a third-party observer, the only thing you’ve said in the last few posts that was in the form of a question was this: > [@DrDeth](#): > > Where did you get the idea I was a “gun enthusiast”?😕 If that was the question, I’m happy to answer it. I don’t know if you’re a “gun enthusiast” in the sense of doing a lot of shooting, but I do know that you’re the most prolific poster of pro-gun talking points on this entire board, and invariably make an appearance in any and all threads that have anything to do with guns to regurgitate the same tired old talking points straight out of the NRA handbook. You even go so far as to flatly deny that the US has a far higher rate of gun violence than any other country in the world that is culturally, socially, or economically similar, a preposterous position to take which even the opponents of gun control don’t pretend to believe, because it’s so ridiculous. Instead, they argue that it’s the price of “freedom”. Thing is, “freedom” is sometimes a zero-sum game; that is, your right to own lots of guns with minimal regulation compared to civilized countries infringes _ **my** _ right to live in a peaceful society without fear of getting shot, and without having to unwillingly endure the dangers of becoming a gun-totin’ cowboy myself simply in order to protect myself in a country where guns are as common as candy. You like to refer to this peaceful condition as a “nanny state”, but **Gyrate** already eloquently addressed that issue as I quoted in [post #78](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21912554&postcount=78). To put it a different way, what you affect to call a “nanny state”, most of the rest of the world calls “civilized society”. This is the spirit in which the UK regulates guns and potentially other lethal arms. Gun proliferation is of course a choice that a democratic society is entitled to make, as much as most of us – especially those of us looking in at the US from other countries – are astonished at such a value system, but don’t kid yourself that you’re not paying a very high price for it in terms of a lethally violent society. It’s rather ironic that some think it appropriate to point and laugh at what they regard as over-regulation in the UK, whereas the rest of the world looks at US gun violence in genuine shock and horror. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/94 "2019-10-13T19:59:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Pewter & plastic but plenty of the old lead ones available on eBay, etc. Well, the old lead ones are available on ebay here too. Looking into it, they aren’t actually banned from sale, in the US or the UK, it’s just that people stopped making them, so I withdraw my snarky comment! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/95 "2019-10-13T20:17:19Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I’m not **CarnaK** , but as a third-party observer, the only thing you’ve said in the last few posts that was in the form of a question was this: > > If that was the question, I’m happy to answer it. I don’t know if you’re a “gun enthusiast” in the sense of doing a lot of shooting, but I do know that you’re the most prolific poster of pro-gun talking points on this entire board, and invariably make an appearance in any and all threads that have anything to do with guns to regurgitate the same tired old talking points straight out of the NRA handbook. You even go so far as to flatly deny that the US has a far higher rate of gun violence than any other country in the world that is culturally, socially, or economically similar, a preposterous position to take which even the opponents of gun control don’t pretend to believe, because it’s so ridiculous. … > > To put it a different way, what you affect to call a “nanny state”, most of the rest of the world calls “civilized society”. This is the spirit in which the UK regulates guns and potentially other lethal arms. … Yes, I am , because I think all of our rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights are important. It’s just that , at least on this board- the only one which is under constant attack is the 2nd. Thus, I defend it. I dont shoot or hunt nor do I have a gun collection. I have a old .22 that my dad gave me and my service pistol from when I was uniformed and armed. Since i basically cant sell or give it away in CA without taking a huge loss, I have just locked it up. And indeed, since I support quite a bit of gun control that is legal under the 2nd ad, I dont use any NRA “talking points” since they are against ALL Gun control laws now. Ban bump stocks. More and better background checks. Good “red flag’ laws that have adequate 'due process” (and here I am with the ACLU on this, asking for due process not just on this but other things like the “do not fly” list, etc- so i support _all_ the BoR). And I dont give a crap about that tired old propaganda point of _“gun violence”-_ :rolleyes: what I care about is **violent crime and murder** - whether committed by guns, knives or baseball bats. And the violent crime rate and murder rate here in the uSA is decreasing and is about average for \*all nations. \* Anyone who mentions “gun violence” is to me, in the same category of people who casually use “sheeple” or “Amerika”- someone whose opinions are not worthy of attention. Let’s talk murder or all violent crime, sure. And yes, the USA’s murder rate - altho decreasing- is too high, so yes, we could take steps to reduce it. But the “gun grabbers” dont really care about reducing the murder rate- they just wanna ban guns, the the Constitution can be ignored. I dont cherry pick out the nations I want to compare- I compare vs \*all \*nations, not just Denmark.:rolleyes: However, if you must compare, compare the USA’s murder rate with that of any other nation in the Americas- we are lower than every other nation on these two continents except Canada. Yes, higher than Western Europe- which is what the “gun grabbers” always want to compare us to. I didnt call the USA or GB a nanny state, but if the UK has actually banned any knife with a point- yes, that would be a “nanny state”. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/96 "2019-10-14T13:18:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I dont cherry pick out the nations I want to compare- I compare vs \*all \*nations, not just Denmark.:rolleyes: However, if you must compare, compare the USA’s murder rate with that of any other nation in the Americas- we are lower than every other nation on these two continents except Canada. Yes, higher than Western Europe- which is what the “gun grabbers” always want to compare us to. I find it very strange that you compare the USA with all the other countries in the Americas but look to specifically disregard Canada. Why would you do that? > [@](#): > > if the UK has actually banned any knife with a point- yes, that would be a "nanny state and just to confirm, that has not happened and I don’t think it ever could. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/97 "2019-10-14T14:38:34Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > When I fillet a fish I typically start with the point, when I cut into a large round fruit (watermelon) I typically start by piercing it with the tip, I’ll use the tip of a paring knife to de-vein shrimp, remove the stems from strawberries, and and the seeds from peppers. While I might not always need to use the tip of my knife I use it frequently enough that I would miss it. I have plenty of kitchen knives that don’t need a tip including a bread knife, cleaver, my fancy carver, and all of my table knives. Did you know that table knives have a rounded tip because Cardinal Richelieu issued an order to that effect in Versailles because he disliked seeing people cleaning their fingernails with them at the table? As France was seen as a model of refinement and good taste then, all other European Courts followed, then the rest of us. And yes, knife crime is much reported in British media, almost daily in the BBC 10 o’clock news. And as \*\*Gyrate \*\*has rightly pointed out, it seems to correlate neatly with a 20.000 man reduction in the police force. That is the Tory version of Law and Order under austerity, brought to you mainly by the then Home Secretary Theresa May, who held this post 2010-2016 with her trademark incompetence. As you really need pointy knives to cook and there are already a lot of pointy knives around and it is not difficult to sharpen a point into a round knive I suggest the Brits start to spend money on adecuate policing again. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/98 "2019-10-14T14:54:39Z")
You promised you’d tell us about pointed sticks. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/99 "2019-10-14T15:06:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I dont cherry pick out the nations I want to compare- I compare vs \*all \*nations, not just Denmark.:rolleyes: However, if you must compare, compare the USA’s murder rate with that of any other nation in the Americas- we are lower than every other nation on these two continents except Canada. Yes, higher than Western Europe- which is what the “gun grabbers” always want to compare us to. It would seem admirable and desirable to compare ourselves to those who are better than us in some specific aspect and ask, “What can we learn? How can we improve?”, than to compare ourselves to those worse (or about the same) as us, and celebrate our complacent mediocrity. Worse still, to quote an ideal we’ve never quite lived up to (i.e. Bill of Rights) and claim exceptionalism as an excuse not to pursue change. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/100 "2019-10-14T16:19:37Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I find it very strange that you compare the USA with all the other countries in the Americas but look to specifically disregard Canada. Why would you do that? > > . I didnt, I specifically mentioned Canada. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606.md?page=6)