# Now they want to ban the sale of pointed kitchen knives in the UK to reduce knife crime. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 10, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606 "2019-10-10T20:32:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/141 "2019-10-15T23:30:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > And you’re glibly ignoring that most murders aren’t done preplanned by martial arts experts. If a guy flies into a rage and grabs the kitchen knife, he’s not necessarily going to remember that he has to “transition” from stab to slice. Someone who goes into a blind rage will poke someone and give up because because they can’t figure out a cutting utensil can be used to cut? I’m going to disagree with your reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/142 "2019-10-15T23:39:30Z")
Has anyone thought that maybe if you ban pointy knives as you have already banned guns that the gangbangers will just find another weapon? Bash one another with baseball bats maybe? Just an idea but maybe you ought to look into the notion of why so many people seem to want other people dead. And of course I agree that we here in the US need to ask that very same question, yet we don’t. Of course, it is a hard question. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/143 "2019-10-15T23:43:46Z")
I remember hearing about those hilarious acid attacks. I bet the dumbs dumbs in the UK wanted to ban acid too. Don’t they know that lemon juice is an acid too? Oh man no more shandies!!! Haven’t they ever heard of pH? Good luck finding pickles now. Oh man lol. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/144 "2019-10-15T23:47:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Someone who goes into a blind rage will poke someone and give up because because they can’t figure out a cutting utensil can be used to cut? > > I’m going to disagree with your reasoning. Your reasoning, as I understand it, is that if a bad guy can’t get easy access to a semi-automatic assault rifle that can kill 20 children and six of their teachers in 30 seconds, he’s just going to go and stab them with a fork. You somehow conclude from this that the regulation of dangerous weapons is useless. I’m going to disagree with your reasoning. More importantly, all international crime statistics disagree with your reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/145 "2019-10-15T23:49:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes, anyone who wants a pointy object can make one. But banning the manufacture of pointed knives makes them less immediately available, so it will reduce the number of “crime of passion” stabbings at a stroke. It will also make it much more obvious when murders are premeditated, since the prosecution will be able to show that the defendant deliberately sharpened a knife or other object in order to stab the victim. If you put even five seconds of actual thought into it, the idea of banning pointed knives actually makes a lot of sense. I hurt myself laughing at this, great use of satire. Wait- you’re not being serious are you? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/146 "2019-10-15T23:55:08Z")
> [@Bert\_Nobbins](#): > > About 400 people drown in the UK per year. 282 people were knifed to death in the UK in 2017. > > I don’t call those vastly different threats. And I find your response callous. Smoking kills 25000 brits a year. or 100 _times_ more. But keep banning “weapons”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/147 "2019-10-15T23:56:52Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > [Good thing that the USA has.](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts) :rolleyes: No, that’s \*Vox. \* :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/148 "2019-10-16T00:01:53Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I don’t know enough about the specific proposal in the UK to offer an opinion on whether the idea has merit. What I do know is that no one who lives in a place with the level of easy gun availability and consequent gun violence that afflicts the US and who generally supports that _status quo_ is entitled to point and laugh at the successful regulatory systems of other countries, systems that demonstrably actually work and save lives. In the case of the US, appropriate regulation of weapons could save literally tens of thousands of lives every single year. > > I might also note, speaking of pointy objects, that [the US had no problem banning pointy metal lawn darts](https://www.cpsc.gov/content/following-recent-injury-cpsc-reissues-warning-lawn-darts-are-banned-and-should-be-destroyed). The difference, of course, is that lawn darts are just objects that happen to be potentially dangerous, and don’t have the vast pseudo-religious idolation and ideology behind them that guns do. No, since only about 10000 people are murdered by guns each year. Hard to save " \*literally tens of thousands " if you only have one _tens of thousands_ . \*And Gun control doesnt work in the uSA. It’s been tried, it IS being tried, and it simply doesnt work. CA has the strictest gun laws in the nation, but average homicides. Yes, because they were marketed as\* toys- for kids. \* Adults can buy - for example not counting guns- crossbows, javelins, spears, throwing axes, throwing knives and a host of more dangerous sporting gear- but that’s because such as marketed for _adults,_ not \*kids. \* ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/149 "2019-10-16T00:04:44Z")
> [@XT](#): > > … > > It’s, sadly, true that people are just horrible at risk assessment, often focusing on things that are flashy and in the news but which, frankly, are lower probability events wrt death or injury than shit they do every day. … Such as that favorite target of the gun grabbers, the AR15? Which is only used in less than 4% of gun crime in the USA? But it looks \*oh so dangerous \*and it does appear a lot in the quite rare mass shooting, so even tho it is not a risk at all, let’s ban it? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/150 "2019-10-16T00:08:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Such as that favorite target of the gun grabbers, the AR15? You asked earlier about why I thought you were a gun enthusiast? Non-ironic use of “gun grabbers”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/151 "2019-10-16T00:08:23Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Oh man what will they ban next? Spoons lol? Oh lol lol lol. How will they eat? Oh lol. As the late, great Alan Rickman said: \*Sheriff of Nottingham "Locksley, I’m gonna cut your heart out with a spoon! Guy of Gisborne : Why a spoon, cousin? Why not an axe? Sheriff of Nottingham : Because it’s DULL, you twit. It’ll hurt more. (after running Guy through) Well at least I didn’t use a spoon.\* ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/152 "2019-10-16T00:09:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Someone who goes into a blind rage will poke someone and give up because because they can’t figure out a cutting utensil can be used to cut? > > I’m going to disagree with your reasoning. Not to mention cast iron frying pans, rolling pins, and a host of other dangerous kitchen implements. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/153 "2019-10-16T00:13:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Someone who goes into a blind rage will poke someone and give up because because they can’t figure out a cutting utensil can be used to cut? > > I’m going to disagree with your reasoning. Someone in a rage isn’t often “figuring out” anything, so disagree all you like with reality. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/154 "2019-10-16T11:09:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I hurt myself laughing at this, great use of satire. > Wait- you’re not being serious are you? Yes, he was. And your handwaving away of a valid point without substantive rebuttal is noted. As is the handwaving by everyone else whose contributions have boiled down to “hur hur they should ban forks and pointed sticks next”. The policies in place have been \*\*working \*_- not always ideally but the UK also has been willing to revise their policies where they’re not having the desired effect or there are unintended negative consequences. And yes, some people propose extreme solutions that get considered and dismissed on their merits and demerits. But that consideration is actual consideration, not just lazy snark._ > [@DrDeth](#): > > Smoking kills 25000 brits a year. or 100 _times_ more. > > But keep banning “weapons”. :rolleyes: We will. Because it’s _working_. But keep trying to distract from that point. And, as already noted, work on reducing the harms caused by cigarettes (and air pollution in general, including vehicle emissions) is ongoing. The UK isn’t ignoring one threat to deal with a different one, so your point is both irrelevant and invalid. > [@DrDeth](#): > > And Gun control doesnt work in the uSA. It’s been tried, it IS being tried, and it simply doesnt work. CA has the strictest gun laws in the nation, but average homicides. You keep making this argument. You have yet to make it convincingly, particularly as you 1) keep excluding relevant factors from your argument and 2) keep concluding that “therefore we shouldn’t have any gun control laws” despite not applying this logic to any other regulation. An equally valid conclusion is “gun control doesn’t work because its drafting and implementation are continuously undermined by those with a personal agenda, most notably the NRA”. \*doo doo doodoo doodoo ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/155 "2019-10-16T11:29:31Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > It’s quite a lot of lads dying at the hand of other lads though. And it’s not remotely funny, sorry. What’s with all the mad lads, then? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/156 "2019-10-16T11:39:13Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > What’s with all the mad lads, then? Poor neighbourhoods are always a breeder of violence, but the economic troubles of the last decade and the (again, Tory) policy of austerity in particular has made it much, much worse. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/157 "2019-10-16T12:56:01Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > \*doo doo doodoo doodoo … **Gyrate** , why ? You know you put that thing on repeat in at least 50 brains just now, including mine. Why would you do this ? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/158 "2019-10-16T12:57:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Smoking kills 25000 brits a year. or 100 _times_ more. > > But keep banning “weapons”. :rolleyes: Oh, FFS. Cigarettes are not weapons. Different things require different solutions. We’ve been through this. Not for the last time, I’ll wager. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/159 "2019-10-16T13:26:56Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Oh, FFS. Cigarettes are not weapons. Different things require different solutions. We’ve been through this. Not for the last time, I’ll wager. Probably because the key part is the ‘society allows’ and the ‘death’ part. You want to see them as different, but from a risk perspective they aren’t. Also, seems that similar solutions ARE what are being proposed in many cases. I.E. you and others want to ban weapons, and banning cigarettes has been the go to choice to get rid of the things in our society. So far, selective banning of when and where you can have a cigarette along with increases in taxes and other limitations are what’s generally used. At some point I won’t be surprised if the numbers work out to a whole sale ban. Hell, kind of surprised that the Europeans haven’t gone that route already, as they are so concerned with the lives of their citizens (and also the costs to their healthcare system), but then many of the countries in Europe are much more lax about restrictions on tobacco than the US (or seemingly the UK now). For fuck sake, why do you think that the fact that cigarettes aren’t weapons makes any difference at all in judging relative risk?? Shouldn’t the sheer number of deaths be the important thing, if in fact human lives and saving those lives is actually the goal? Seems to me you go after things that cost the most lives, not just after weapons for weapons sake, if you are REALLY interested in saving lives. At a minimum, you go after more than one thing at a time, but you put the lives lost into perspective with other things a society does that costs lives when determining what should be focused on. As this thread is all about knife bannings in the UK, and not about gun violence in the US (:dubious:), there are a LOT of things that are far more likely to kill UK citizens than a pointy knife. Whether those things are weapons or not is irrelevant if, in fact, the goal is to save lives. ---
**Author:** ![Bert\_Nobbins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@Bert\_Nobbins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bert_Nobbins)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606/160 "2019-10-16T13:48:53Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > I remember hearing about those hilarious acid attacks. People have been horribly maimed- and you find that hilarious? > [@](#): > > I bet the dumbs dumbs in the UK wanted to ban acid too. Already done it. Strong acids are now much harder to come by. Try to remember abuse is not argument. > [@](#): > > Don’t they know that lemon juice is an acid too? Oh man no more shandies!!! Haven’t they ever heard of pH? Good luck finding pickles now. Oh man lol. Don’t you know that lemon juice and vinegar are not dangerous materials? This is all about guns for you , isn’t it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-they-want-to-ban-the-sale-of-pointed-kitchen-knives-in-the-uk-to-reduce-knife-crime/841606.md?page=9)