# Now THIS is an example of where anti abortionists actually just hate women. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 26, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288 "2011-05-26T14:00:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/21 "2011-05-26T16:17:18Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Because public education is a good thing and ensures social mobility among other things ? Which is also a strictly positive thing in a society ? Just spitballin’ here. You could use that justify spending on almost anything. > [@](#): > > Besides, med students do _not_ make good money. And if they were, why would they pay for more training ? They’re already making good money. Let someone else do the training and sacrifice their wallet, surely there’s gonna be a few to take that burden, hmm ? Let it be someone else’s problem \o/ Doctors, not med students. Take out a loan. That’s what those of us do who are not covered by the government spoils system. ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/22 "2011-05-26T16:17:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And that has what to do with federal funding of abortion training…? > > I know some people can’t see a problem without assuming there must be a government solution, but this is a real stretch. Gee, I dunno. Since the government wasted their time writing and passing this bill, it seems to have become a “government solution” to a non-existent problem. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/23 "2011-05-26T16:20:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Doctors, not med students. Take out a loan. That’s what those of us do who are not covered by the government spoils system. Again, why would they ? They’re making good money. They’ve made it. They’re halfway out of the student loans they got at Mafia rates to even get there. Why would they pay for anything else ? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/24 "2011-05-26T16:25:54Z")
> [@Implicit](#): > > Gee, I dunno. Since the government wasted their time writing and passing this bill, it seems to have become a “government solution” to a non-existent problem. No. If the funding wasn’t a legitimate government expense in the first place, you don’t get to claim it’s overreaching government to eliminate that spending. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/25 "2011-05-26T16:26:32Z")
At first, I thought this applied to all residency programs funded under Medicare, and was properly (I think) outraged. But on reading the article it appears it only applies to a new grant program for health training centers created by the PPACA? In that case, meh, stupid pro-life grandstanding - unsurprising, but no more than their usual bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/26 "2011-05-26T16:28:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No. If the funding wasn’t a legitimate government expense in the first place, you don’t get to claim it’s overreaching government to eliminate that spending. Oh wait - so you don’t approve of Medicare paying resident training at all? How do you suppose we train doctors for accreditation after med school? However, that doesn’t appear to be what this bill is about anyways, so it’s probably irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/27 "2011-05-26T16:54:02Z")
> [@hermette](#): > > Sadly some US doctors would rather [let the woman die](http://theangryblackwoman.com/2011/05/24/abortion-saved-my-life/#comments) than provide the legitimate health care required. That was seriously disturbing…it’s even more disturbing when I realize that some of my relatives would consider the death of a woman in such a case to be “part of God’s plan”. ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/28 "2011-05-26T17:37:12Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Flawed analogy. A more apt one would be withholding funds for brown paint, because someone might use it to draw a turd. Or a Republican congressman ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/29 "2011-05-26T17:57:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No. If the funding wasn’t a legitimate government expense in the first place, you don’t get to claim it’s overreaching government to eliminate that spending. “The proposal was presented as an amendment to the latest of several GOP bills to restrict funding for the health care act that was enacted last year.” The health care act wasn’t a legitimate government expense? Neat trick. I bet you’ll tell me that abortions aren’t legitimate health care procedures next. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/30 "2011-05-26T18:16:09Z")
> [@Implicit](#): > > “The proposal was presented as an amendment to the latest of several GOP bills to restrict funding for the health care act that was enacted last year.” > > The health care act wasn’t a legitimate government expense? Neat trick. We’re talking about one amendment. That amendment doesn’t repeal the entire act. > [@](#): > > I bet you’ll tell me that abortions aren’t legitimate health care procedures next. :rolleyes: I’ll bet you’re an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/31 "2011-05-26T18:40:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No. If the funding wasn’t a legitimate government expense in the first place, you don’t get to claim it’s overreaching government to eliminate that spending. Eliminating ALL spending on medical training would be an indication of economic priorities. I wouldn’t necessarily agree, but I wouldn’t call it misogynistic. SPECIFICALLY eliminating funding for abortion training, on the other hand, cannot be anything but a principled stand against women’s health. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/32 "2011-05-26T18:53:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Doctors make good money. They can pay for their own training. There isn’t enough private money to train the few doctors needed to perform those abortions? :dubious: > > n.b.: I’m pro-choice. But I don’t see why we need to spend federal money to train doctors. Doctors also rack up huge amounts of debt on the road to becoming doctors. HUGE. When they’re starting out, they are mostly paying off those debts, and have very little discretionary income. And sometimes, a doctor will need to perform an abortion immediately. As in, the patient is gonna die in a few minutes or hours, and there’s no time to call in another doctor, if one is even available. Should we NOT train doctors to perform emergency appendectomies, because such procedures are so rarely needed? The thing is, emergency treatment is emergency treatment, and ALL doctors need to be trained in it, and a doctor who refuses to perform emergency treatment AND WHO ALSO REFUSES TO CALL IN ANOTHER DOCTOR to perform it should lose his license. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/33 "2011-05-26T19:01:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Doctors make good money. They can pay for their own training. There isn’t enough private money to train the few doctors needed to perform those abortions? :dubious: > > n.b.: I’m pro-choice. But I don’t see why we need to spend federal money to train doctors. You can disagree with the premise that we ought to spend federal money to train doctors, but the bottom line is that we do already. The question, therefore, is whether or not it should be left up to political ideology, and not medical science, to determine _what_ we train doctors to do. That being said, I would say the definitive answer is no, as long as abortion remains a legal medical procedure, it needs to be taught as part of the curriculum in medical school as it may one day be required for whatever reason necessary, and more highly trained doctors are better than less highly trained ones. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/34 "2011-05-26T19:12:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you’re pro-life, why would you want to expend federal funds to teach doctors how to kill? I dunno, just miles from your doorstep, hundreds of men are given weapons and trained to kill. The government calls it “the army”, but a more alarmist name would be… THE KILLBOT FACTORY! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/35 "2011-05-26T19:36:09Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I dunno, just miles from your doorstep, hundreds of men are given weapons and trained to kill. The government calls it “the army”, but a more alarmist name would be… THE KILLBOT FACTORY! Well, sure, but they mostly kill brown people. So, you know. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/36 "2011-05-26T20:03:54Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > This. They don’t hate women, they’re just indifferent to the pain and death this bill could cause if it actually became law. The House GOP aren’t misogynists - they’re sociopaths. Come on. Seriously. They’ve launched either 600 or 900 bills this year, which restrict a woman’s right to get an abortion. No other bill has specifically targeted anybody else by gender. The number alone tells you something. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/37 "2011-05-26T20:38:30Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Eliminating ALL spending on medical training would be an indication of economic priorities. I wouldn’t necessarily agree, but I wouldn’t call it misogynistic. > > SPECIFICALLY eliminating funding for abortion training, on the other hand, cannot be anything but a principled stand against women’s health. It’s a principled stand against killing babies. They think a fetus is a person. None of the other training that money is spent on results in the death of a person. This is not rocket surgery, unless you refuse to accept that the other side actually holds principled beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/38 "2011-05-26T20:42:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This is not rocket surgery, unless you refuse to accept that the other side actually holds principled beliefs. Since they are Republicans _and_ politicians, I wouldn’t say that possibility is _totally_ out of the question. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/39 "2011-05-26T20:42:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s a principled stand against killing babies. They think a fetus is a person. None of the other training that money is spent on results in the death of a person. > > This is not rocket surgery, unless you refuse to accept that the other side actually holds principled beliefs. But even then, many still allow for the exceptions in the case of rape, incest, or the health of the mother. This demonstrates that they indeed have no such exceptions, and would rather a woman die because she could not receive a legal medical procedure than to train doctors to do their jobs appropriately. It appears to be a less a principled stand against killing babies and more one favor of letting women die from lack of access to medical care. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288/40 "2011-05-26T20:45:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > None of the other training that money is spent on results in the death of a person. Does that mean we need to make sure no funding goes to training doctors on handling No Resuscitation Orders too (or whatever the term is)? And while were on sore subjects, I’d like to make sure none of my tax dollars go toward training doctors in any sort of reconstructive surgery because I think old ladies with facelifts are vain assholes. How come my principles aren’t being pandered to? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-this-is-an-example-of-where-anti-abortionists-actually-just-hate-women/583288.md?page=3)