# Now what should people on the left do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 6, 2024, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778 "2024-11-06T12:13:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/181 "2024-11-07T16:08:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > They like the horrible stuff Trump is going to do, and want more of it. There isn’t any deeper mystery here. I’ve met a lot of Trump supporters, and that isn’t true of any of them. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/182 "2024-11-08T13:31:53Z")
A post was merged into an existing topic: [FreakinLiberal posts and his thread: Why no “introduce yourself” section?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/freakinliberal-posts-and-his-thread-why-no-introduce-yourself-section/1009850/22) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/183 "2024-11-07T16:17:51Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > I guess that’s part of my question! If we accept the premise that they are not all irredeemable racists/misogynists, how do they justify voting for Trump. Do they think he is not being serious, and isn’t going to follow through on those statements? Have they been misinformed or are willfully blind as to what he has said? Are they so disgusted with Biden and the democratic political platform that they are willing to vote for ANYONE else? Voters have had eight years, conviction on 34 felony counts, extensive evidence of misogyny and sexual assault, frequently repeated threats to use presidential authority to persecute political opponents, his grotesque mishandling of the pandemic when all he needed to do was let the experts speak and do the minimum of their recommendations, his absolute nuttery about a massive tariff regime, his unworkable scheme to round up and deport a constantly changing number of millions of immigrants, and his one-sided cultivation of strongman leaders which he swoons over like a teenage girl on her favorite K-pop group. The voters have seen everything they need to see about Trump’s character, ideology (such as it is), corruption, and ineptitude even at executing the onerous things he actually wants to do, and seventy-odd million of them were totally fine with it. Fuck them; Joe Biden accidentally got it right when he called them “garbage”. They are fascist-enabling human waste who have made the decision to uplift a demagogue to a job he already failed at once, and in consequence send the United States on an express elevator to a shit-filled subbasement of failed post-industrial former superpowers where he and Putin can congratulate one another on what a terribly good job they’ve done of undermining enlightened and just society. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/184 "2024-11-07T16:22:34Z")
My question was to @We_re_wolves_not_werewolves ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/185 "2024-11-07T16:23:18Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > You need to study on why they switched. And it’s not because of racism or sexism or whatever. And when you discover the reason they’ve switched, there may be some hope for the Democratic Party. Every time this comes up, they usually don’t give specifics. Like this time. When they _do_ give specifics, most of the time it’s pointing to things that they dislike the Democrats for doing which the Democrats _aren’t_ doing. You can’t back away from things you never were for in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/186 "2024-11-07T16:39:34Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > We can try to understand why we failed to communicate with them. Or we can write them off as monsters. I’m curious how this thinking would apply to the Palestinian situation. To both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/187 "2024-11-07T16:47:02Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > We can try to understand why we failed to communicate with them. Or we can write them off as monsters. This assumes that the inability to sway Trump voters from the dark side was due to a failure of communication. It’s not clear to me that that was the case. And even if Harris and Walz had been _utterly mute_ about their platform, it still would have been a better choice than a ticket that was pledging persecution of minorities, political violence, contempt for a free press, caste-based (i.e. are you married w/kids or not) taxation and voting privileges, foreign-policy chaos, economy-wrecking tariffs, and an end to democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/188 "2024-11-07T16:50:09Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > I’m curious how this thinking would apply to the Palestinian situation. To both sides. The same exact way. I’m pretty shocked that people who work so hard to understand where Hamas support in Palestine is coming from dismiss their own countrymen as irredeemable racist homophobes for supporting Donald Trump, who - for all his faults - is far more moderate than Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/189 "2024-11-07T16:52:04Z")
As someone from a red state with plenty of MAGA acquaintances, perhaps I can answer this. > [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > Do they think he is not being serious, and isn’t going to follow through on those statements? Largely, yes. Or that liberals and media are lying about what he said. Things like the Liz Cheney quote, which I do believe the media misrepresented, help support this belief. > [@](#): > > Have they been misinformed or are willfully blind as to what he has said? Sometimes. Often they will not have seen a particular quote, and won’t believe it when you show it to them. “That was doctored” or “that was out of context”. The fact that the media and liberals _have_ taken Trump out of context to accuse him of calls to violence don’t help combat these claims. > [@](#): > > Are they so disgusted with Biden and the democratic political platform that they are willing to vote for ANYONE else? Not really. They often don’t really hate Biden that much, they just think he’s old and weak and doesn’t fight for them hard enough. They do kinda hate Harris, because many of them think she either slept her way to the top or only got appointed to VP because she’s a black woman - so your basic racism and misogyny. The J6 and criminal trials and convictions are pretty easily swept away as: “something bad that got out of hand and Trump tried to stop it but couldn’t” and “weaponized DOJ and crazy liberal AGs and judges”. So I guess in general the answer is: they aren’t fascists and they don’t believe that Trump is one. They don’t want gay and transgender people punished, and they don’t believe Trump will do so. They don’t want law-abiding immigrants deported, and they don’t believe Trump does either. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/190 "2024-11-07T16:56:46Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Often they will not have seen a particular quote, and won’t believe it when you show it to them. “That was doctored” or “that was out of context”. So they listen to no evidence that they don’t want to hear? Hm. > [@Jas09](#): > > So I guess in general the answer is: they aren’t fascists and they don’t believe that Trump is one. They don’t want gay and transgender people punished, and they don’t believe Trump will do so. They don’t want law-abiding immigrants deported, and they don’t believe Trump does either. I hope you’re right, and they recognize the evil when it comes. (A big if, given the above…) ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/191 "2024-11-07T18:51:33Z")
My advice: wait it out for two years until the almost inevitable swing back to the left in Congress happens (how many Republican Senate seats are up for election in 2026?), then hope that some sort of bipartisanship takes hold rather than months of gridlock-based shutdowns. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/192 "2024-11-07T19:44:18Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > Sure, you can believe that the mere fact that someone voted for Trump makes them a terrible person, and even find comfort in like-minded people. It doesn’t mean you are right and it seems like a miserable way to go through life; angry, fearful, and filled with hate for a large portion of the population. Not to Godwinize, but would you agree that people who voted for Hitler were terrible people? If not, where do you draw the line? I suppose you could argue that many/most of his voters are just very poorly informed rather than evil, and to some extent they can’t be blamed for that. But that leads to the conclusion that you just can’t ever judge people at all based on their political beliefs, which seems wrong. History has shown over and over that _sometimes_ people are entirely justified in hating and fearing the majority of their neighbors, because they really do want to murder them. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/193 "2024-11-07T20:29:50Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I suppose you could argue that many/most of his voters are just very poorly informed rather than evil, and to some extent they can’t be blamed for that. Being very poorly informed was much more plausible in the 1930s and 1940s than it is the 2010s and 2020s. It’s why Allied forces, after liberating concentration camps at the end of the war, rounded up German civilians from nearby towns and brought them to the camps so they could see with their own eyes what was being done in their names. Being very poorly informed in the modern era takes some deliberate effort. There’s no shortage of information in the modern era, but some voters are willfully ignoring info that conflicts with their preestablished positions and choosing instead to buy into the firehose of lies coming from Fox News, CT sites, and Trump himself - all talking about how terrible the economy is (it’s not), how rampant crime is (it’s not), and how all the illegal Haitian immigrants in Ohio are stealing and eating their neighbors’ pets (they’re not). ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/194 "2024-11-07T20:56:15Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > My advice: wait it out for two years until the almost inevitable swing back to the left in Congress happens (how many Republican Senate seats are up for election in 2026?), then hope that some sort of bipartisanship takes hold rather than months of gridlock-based shutdowns. You mean, after Project _ **2025** _ is implemented? Not a great plan. > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Being very poorly informed in the modern era takes some deliberate effort. It goes even beyond this; even a Trump voter who has excluded all news and commentary to propaganda outlets like Fox News, OANN, or [or insert your favorite right wing media pig trough], they have certainly actually seen and heard Trump state that he’s going to be a dictator who plans to persecute his political enemies for unspecified (or no actual) crimes. If you see a political candidate doing this and your response isn’t at least, “Huh, that seems very contrary to democracy and the rule of law, right?”, then you are making a deliberate choice to enable a self-professed demagogue, _as people who voted for Trump in this election have done._ Even if they don’t understand how to identify fascism, or are aligned with Trump’s ‘values’ and ‘policies’ (such as they are), they should know that this is very wrong _even if they believe that Trump will not follow through_. The people who voted Trump into an office the second time in eight years cannot claim that they haven’t seen his character, or don’t understand his desires, or don’t believe that he will deliberately damage institutions of democracy and callously harm millions of people on a whim while fist pumping and mugging for the camera. Unless you’ve been in a coma since 2016 and just woke up last week, you know what Trump is, you should have a good grasp on the damage he will do, and you make the choice to elect him anyway. Fuck those people. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/195 "2024-11-07T21:21:38Z")
Well said. I can’t not judge people who saw those disgusting anti-trans TV ads and didn’t immediately say “Wow, this is literally Nazi-level caricaturing and scapegoating of a minority group”. Nor can I not judge people who saw it and said “Well, I don’t agree with him on that particular issue, but INFLATION!” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/196 "2024-11-07T21:27:04Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Nor can I not judge people who saw it and said “Well, I don’t agree with him on that particular issue, but INFLATION!” I might be inclined to give some sliver of consideration to people legitimately concerned about inflation and hurting from the price of basic staples if it wasn’t for the fact that there is a near universal consensus among economists that Trump’s plan to engage in a tariff war with the rest of the world will lead to substantial increases in inflation and only to the benefit of the wealthy donor class. That makes those people terminally stupid and intentionally obtuse, and I’m all out of sympathy for either condition. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/197 "2024-11-07T21:36:21Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Not to Godwinize, but would you agree that people who voted for Hitler were terrible people? you mean when Hitler ran for president of Germany in 1932? Everyone who voted for him? No, absolutely not. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/198 "2024-11-07T21:38:54Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > you mean when Hitler ran for president of Germany in 1932? Everyone who voted for him? No, absolutely not. OK, fair enough. Honest followup question: Do you think there _are_ people in the world who could fairly be described as “terrible”, and if so, how would you identify them? ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/199 "2024-11-07T21:53:59Z")
Yes of course. I have no problem classifying All of Trump’s MAGA acolytes as more or less terrible people. But my only point is that it is unfair and inaccurate to use the fact that someone voted for Trump, _in and of itself_, as the sole reason for classifying that person as terrible. You ask how to identify them as terrible. I mean, certainly by their actions. It can be as little as one action if that is heinous enough. So, I will confidently say that a person that kidnapped and killed a child is a horrible person, regardless of me not knowing one single thing else about that person. But of course most people aren’t murderers, so in most cases, you need a pattern of behavior to be really confident that a person is horrible. How much of a pattern and what behavior is required to make that determination is really up to an individual to decide. I think Trump is a horrible person due to everything he has said and done. I can’t say the same about everyone who voted for him based solely on the fact that they did so. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/200 "2024-11-07T22:20:15Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > > [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > > > My advice: wait it out for two years until the almost inevitable swing back to the left in Congress happens (how many Republican Senate seats are up for election in 2026?), then hope that some sort of bipartisanship takes hold rather than months of gridlock-based shutdowns. > > You mean, after Project _ **2025** _ is implemented? Not a great plan. > > Stranger You seem to be more convinced that Project 2025 is a done deal than I am. Wouldn’t quite a bit of it require getting rid of the filibuster - and even if this is this the bridge the Republicans want to cross to do it, do they have the 51 votes (including the VP, if it comes down to it) to do it? I don’t see Collins or Murkowski supporting it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778.md?page=11)