# Now what should people on the left do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 6, 2024, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778 "2024-11-06T12:13:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/261 "2024-11-09T00:28:25Z")
This self-delusion is why you lost. “Nearly everything on there is bullshit the Republicans made up” Wow. I wish you and yours good fortune sir. With utter sincerity. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/262 "2024-11-09T00:32:47Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > This self-delusion is why you lost. “Nearly everything on there is bullshit the Republicans made up” No, it _is_ all lies; the Republicans lie like they breathe. People just preferred evil lies over truth. _Obvious_ evil lies. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/263 "2024-11-09T00:36:43Z")
The economy, the border, proxy wars, Biden calling half the country garbage, Kamala saying Joe was sharp as a tack, Trump was nearly assassinated, Bidens performance in the debates, that Kamala was appointed without a primary, that Obama lectured voters, ALL lies? I also wish you good fortune sir. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/264 "2024-11-09T00:43:52Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > The economy Is strong. > [@](#): > > the border What about it? > [@](#): > > proxy wars …such as? > [@](#): > > Biden calling half the country garbage Never happened. > [@](#): > > Kamala saying Joe was sharp as a tack He is. > [@](#): > > Trump was nearly assassinated By a registered Republican. > [@](#): > > Bidens performance in the debates He had a sore throat. > [@](#): > > that Kamala was appointed without a primary She was nominated as part of a ticket that received more votes than any presidential candidate in histort. > [@](#): > > that Obama lectured voters Never happened. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/265 "2024-11-09T01:49:24Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > > [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > > > You seem to be more convinced that Project 2025 is a done deal than I am. > > You know how they say that when someone tells you who they really are and what they stand for, believe them? This is all the shit the far-right wing of the GOP has been coyly implying they want for decades? They’ve now just laid it out for all to see, and they have the control and access to do it as long as they can keep Trump distracted in Twitter wars or pretending he’s a fire truck driver. Which is “Super easy, barely an inconvenience.” > > > [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > > > Wouldn’t quite a bit of it require getting rid of the filibuster - and even if this is this the bridge the Republicans want to cross to do it, do they have the 51 votes (including the VP, if it comes down to it) to do it? I don’t see Collins or Murkowski supporting it. > > You don’t see Susan “I don’t think I will vote fo…oh, yes, ‘Aye’” Collins will back Trump’s play as long as she gets something juicy out of it? She’s just second to Joe Manchin in talking a good game about how independent she is and then backing Trump anyway. If she is the keystone securing the arch of democracy, we are all so very, very fucked. What should worry people the most is, if the Democrats get control of either or both houses of Congress in 2026 - and don’t dismiss it; I remember people laughing at Jack Germond when he said in 1993 that the Republicans would take both houses from the Democrats the following year - then they’ll try to ram through as much as possible in the two months between the election and when the new Congress takes over, knowing that Trump’s veto will stop any attempts to reverse it. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/266 "2024-11-09T02:08:25Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > What should worry people the most is, if the Democrats get control of either or both houses of Congress in 2026 - and don’t dismiss it; I remember people laughing at Jack Germond when he said in 1993 that the Republicans would take both houses from the Democrats the following year - then they’ll try to ram through as much as possible in the two months between the election and when the new Congress takes over, knowing that Trump’s veto will stop any attempts to reverse it. That’s really your “worst case”? I think you and I went to very different schools. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/267 "2024-11-09T15:59:06Z")
For your consideration, as Rid Serling might put it, and we are most def in The Twilight Zone, the nation-state, even those with a degree of democratic participation via votes every few years, remain essentially hierarchical and authoritarian. Capitalism is also hierarchical and authoritarian: its chief characteristic is that ownership of capital allows the owner to control the work, income and all that income buys, from education to health to housing to recreation, of those who are compelled by necessity to go to work for the owner. This is not unique to the nation-state and capitalism, of course, but the logic and rules and workings of the system are different from, say, feudalism. Thus we have a society divided into those few who can give orders and the vast majority who are expected to follow orders. Education systems, many team sports, much media, much recreation, and more create, instill, and reinforce the ideas of hierarchy and authority. Thus many “appreciate” hierarchy and authority. Many more bristle and bridle at them, but have no legitimate avenue for resisting. Often we don’t even have the language and political education to recognize and reject hierarchy and authoritarianism. This leads to anger, frustration, and resentment, which are useful for those political and economic actors who want to maintain hierarchy and authoritarianism. None of the mainstream parties even begin to touch on this reality, because they are committed to the hierarchy and authoritarianism of the nation-state and capital. They have different approaches: some might be fine with letting a few women and people of colour into the upper echelons, or having the police use less lethal weapons, but no one is saying “your anger and frustration with hierarchy and authoritarianism are justified and worthy sentiments that show us where the real problems and issues lie. We can turn those sentiments into hope and progress by creating a vision of equality and freedom.” What I find most remarkable is the sense of possibility and hope and solidarity continues to exist at all. That sense remains our starting place. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/268 "2024-11-09T16:12:39Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > no one is saying “your anger and frustration with hierarchy and authoritarianism are justified and worthy sentiments that show us where the real problems and issues lie. We can turn those sentiments into hope and progress by creating a vision of equality and freedom.” There are plenty of ideological groups that say that, but they aren’t mainstream because most people don’t want to tear down the nation-state or abolish capital. They just want to make things more fair. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/269 "2024-11-09T19:12:26Z")
To continue, given a system that creates and relies on anger, frustration, and resentment, it is not surprising that people use elections to vent, to vote against, and perhaps to vote for someone who appears to embody their anger, or at least seems to appreciate it. Elections are not about policy or rational calculation. How can they be? The parties and politicians represent only a few options in a narrow range among few policies, and everyone knows that whatever policies and politicians say, after the election, all bets are off. They are a show, a ritual, for most people. Why not then vote for someone who seems more like you or who you might like to be, that is, an order-giver rather than an order taker. When real change is not an option, monetary catharsis may be the best you can expect. So blaming people for being stupid, not knowing who represents their best interests, not caring about “democracy” is pointless and to some degree, part of the problem. How we craft an inclusive vision of community, equality, freedom and participation remains the issue. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2024, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/270 "2024-11-10T05:33:32Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > um, what insult? That you’ve repeated yourself numerous times or that you and most others on here have shown no real reflection or nuanced thought on the causes of this defeat? In either case, I’m sorry if you are offended. I’m just flabbergasted that no lessons are seemingly going to be learnt by this defeat. It’s disappointing. I feel the same, and I know I’ve angered some by expressing it. Maybe it’s too soon; this is a really traumatic situation and I understand that folks need to vent and and process their grief. When that settles down, I think Dems need to get practical. I hate the fuck out of the current situation with every fiber of my being, but if we don’t do something different ,I’m afraid I’ll be destined to feel this way for the remaining last trimester of my life. I’ve mentioned (as have others) that this is the time to figure out what went wrong. Yes, we can all agree that we _feel_ that what went wrong is the majority of the country have lost their damned mind and now we’re on the brink of a fascist nightmare. I don’t know cock or dick about political activism but I’m ready and willing to participate. When we’re feeling a little less devastated, maybe we circle the wagons and make a concerted effort to understand how we can reach the _reachable_ and incorporate their wants and needs with our agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/271 "2024-11-11T18:17:35Z")
Dems taking the high road doesn’t work on Trump. It didn’t work in 2016, and it didn’t work this year. He has no shame to exploit. He doesn’t stay down and comes back more determined than ever, and that makes a galvanizing impression on voters. They could have produced more negative ads showing Trump’s most egregious flubs, like George Conway did on YouTube, instead of playing up Kamala. It’s not like they lacked source material. The Dems also forgot one key thing about Diversity and Inclusion: all those minority groups they brought into prevalence are just as politically divided as whites. Libs didn’t consider that those groups could have conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/272 "2024-11-11T18:39:00Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > The Dems also forgot one key thing about Diversity and Inclusion: all those minority groups they brought into prevalence are just as politically divided as whites. Libs didn’t consider that those groups could have conservatives. And one other thing. If you make identity groups very important, you can’t be surprised and angry when people vote in a way that helps their identity groups. Or at least in a way that pushes back against who they think isn’t going to help. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/273 "2024-11-11T18:43:14Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > If you make identity groups very important, you can’t be surprised and angry when people vote in a way that helps their identity groups. Except they did the opposite. I think that the Democrats overestimated the judgement of those minorities and assumed they wouldn’t vote to hurt _themselves._ ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/274 "2024-11-11T18:50:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Except they did the opposite. If you mean various minority groups voted against their interest, that’s not what I meant. More that if you’re going to try to “progressive stack” the population of an entire country, expect them to start figuring out how to either use it to their advantage or to fight against it. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2024, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/275 "2024-11-13T14:27:09Z")
I’m not going anywhere. But my wife and I do is vote D and vote for every tax increase for schools. It’s clear that education is failing. We also vote for just about every other tax increase. The sheriffs department in this county is CLOSED from 11pm to 7am. And that’s not just the office workers. Nobody to come to your assistance. Nobody on patrol. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2024, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/276 "2024-11-13T15:34:13Z")
I have some advice on what people on the Left should _not_ do… Don’t throw money and/or votes to the “most nutso right wing” primary candidates in the hopes they will more easily lose to the Dem. In today’s world, that seems…very risky…to me. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2024, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/277 "2024-11-13T17:49:42Z")
Getting back at the OP, the best message that to get the biggest number of votes, IMHO, is fiscally liberal but socially conservative. Whichever party - Republican or Democratic - that can first pounce on and promote such a message, will have the political upper hand. Wokeness is unpopular, but higher wages and reduced income inequality and cheaper-yet-better healthcare is a win all around. ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2024, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/278 "2024-11-13T18:22:36Z")
We lost. I’m not going to do anything, other than taking steps to protect my family’s safety and financial well-being. Then I’m going to sit on my porch with a beer and watch the trumpers get everything they voted for and laugh my ass off at them while the world burns. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/279 "2024-11-13T18:40:44Z")
So…_don’t_ demonize those that vote for a habitual liar convict rapist? Please tell me-How far does a candidate have to go before you say “That’s too fucking much, even for me.”? ---
**Author:** ![BorealisCooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/db5fbb/32.png) [@BorealisCooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorealisCooper)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778/280 "2024-11-15T14:41:52Z")
> [@BorealisCooper](#): > > Really ? You would recommend removing parents or children from ones life ? If you actually care for that person, wouldn’t simply not discussing poltics be a better and reasonable choice ? A reasonable article, imo, about this topic. This Election Season, Don’t Let Politics Destroy Your Family [https://ifstudies.org/blog/this-election-season-dont-let-politics-destroy-your-family](https://ifstudies.org/blog/this-election-season-dont-let-politics-destroy-your-family) excerpts from the article… Years ago, the leader of a news organization I once worked for famously (and I think incorrectly) [declared](https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/06/should-news-outlets-declare-allegiances-209576) that “there are not two sides” on many political issues, and today many have run with that sentiment, exorcizing from their lives people they believe fall on the wrong side of history. But political estrangements are tragedies. They break apart family support networks, so that moms and dads lose childrearing support from grandparents, or the elderly languish in isolation. Loneliness, [already an epidemic](https://ifstudies.org/blog/why-are-we-ignoring-family-as-a-solution-to-loneliness), increases. On a deeper level, these types of rifts imply that family is simply less important than ideas. The good news, however, is that it doesn’t have to be this way. Politics has not always been the great divider it is today, and even now in many parts of the world people continue to prioritize relationships over ideals. We could learn a thing or two from such cultures, and, along with a better understanding of psychological history, we might be able to find ways to prioritize family relationships even during these times of heightened political tension. It is possible to put family first. During this season of polarization, rifts within our families over politics are not inevitable. We can put family relationships above everything else. That doesn’t mean everyone has to agree all of the time. Indeed, the point is that we won’t always agree. But it does mean that people with divergent views on controversial issues—say, abortion or the war in Gaza—can still break bread together because the most important thing is their relationship with each other. In the end, few of us can change the course of geopolitical conflicts or decide how to spend billions in taxpayer dollars. None of us will single handedly decide the outcome of the election in November. But we can be a very real force in the lives of the people we love by looking to places where—to borrow from Henrich—the “right” thing to do is to show loyalty. And who knows, perhaps if we put our relationships first, we might even find ourselves meeting in the middle more often as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/now-what-should-people-on-the-left-do/1009778.md?page=15)