# Nowegian bestselling author in Anti-Semitic rant? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 9, 2006, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990 "2006-08-09T12:01:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/1 "2006-08-09T12:01:20Z")
The largest newspaper in Norway publishes a long anti-Israel op-ed rant by famous Norwegian author, Jostein Gaarder (author of bestselling novel: Sophie’s World). In the op-ed, Gaarder several times denounces Israel right to exist (in its current form) (_“We do no longer recognize the state of Israel”_ _“Israel, with its unscrupulous art of war and its disgusting weapons, has massacred its own legitimacy”_ _“Israel has raped the recognition of the world”_ _“May spirit and word sweep away the apartheid walls of Israel. The state of Israel does not exist”_ _“We [do not] recognize the state of Israel of 1967”_ _“We do not recognize the state of Israel”_) further comparing it with South African apartheid and Taliban. And says that Israelis celebrate the death of Lebanese children and that most Israeli consider one Israeli life worth more than 40 Lebanese. - this can be written off as standard anti-Israelism and not absolutely necessarily Anti-Semitic. However Gaarder continues with taking on the concept of the [chosen people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_a_chosen_people), which is also the the title of his piece, saying the basic concept is inherently “laughable”, “absurd”, “a crime against humanity” and “racist”. He further implies that Judaism (which he says has a “sadistic God”) is an archaic religion which compares unfavorable with Christianity and modern humanism… Original: [God’s Chosen People](http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kronikker/article1411153.ece) Translation: [Famous Author Excoriates Israel](http://www.boomantribune.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2006/8/5/122335/1324) When faced with criticism, he assures that he is not Anti-Semitic in the least, that he even has Jewish friends, and that he doesn’t understand what all the hoopla is about (– but that he will withdraw from further debate on the subject as it is simply too much hazzle). While many, including the director of the Norwegian holocaust-center, has criticized him, many others says it’s simply perfectly understandable critique of Israel, and all the noise merely an attempt to stop all critique of Israel. Did he cross the line from legitimate criticism of Israel, to outright Anti-Antisemitism? - also from the piece: > [@](#): > > May spirit and word sweep away the apartheid walls of Israel. The state of Israel does not exist. It is now without defense, without skin. May the world therefore have mercy on the civilian population. For it is not civilian individuals at whom our doomsaying is directed. – yes, because Jews have such good experience with the world showing mercy when they’re defenseless. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/2 "2006-08-09T12:28:47Z")
(My Google ad promises me ways of meeting sexy smart Israeli singles. That is so not going to happen.) Anyway, sounds like the guy is emotional and needs to breathe into a paper bag. Also an editor would help. He makes some good points. Further telling us his opinion is pretty well unarguable, as it is opinion. But when you get into anti-Semestism, you loose your audience ---
**Author:** ![yelimS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/54ee81/32.png) [@yelimS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yelimS)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/3 "2006-08-09T16:29:46Z")
I haven’t been paying much attention, but here’s a comment from the author, with links to related stories, if anyone’s interrested. [http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1415414.ece](http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1415414.ece) ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/4 "2006-08-09T21:36:05Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > When faced with criticism, he assures that he is not Anti-Semitic in the least, that **he even has Jewish friends**. Well, of course, the old "I even have [introduce ethnicity here] friends. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/5 "2006-08-09T22:18:56Z")
Well, gotta love someone who actually has the balls to say what he thinks. However, I think he steps in it completely when he implies that it was Christ who introduced humanism. That’s not just a cheap shot, it’s wrong, and pretty outrageous, really. Also, shouldn’t this guy know better than conflating Judaism with the state of Israel? Since when is Israel a theocracy? “We do not recognize the old Kingdom of David as a model for the 21st century map of the Middle East.” No, and neither, I assume, do the secular, _realpolitik_-oriented major Israeli political parties. Anyway, it doesn’t seem like it’s the idea of a theocracy that’s getting Gaarder’s goat, anyway, just the ones based on the wrong religion. Certainly, the alternative Gaarder gives to “a state founded on antihumanistic principles and on the ruins of an archaic national and war religion” isn’t a state founded on secular humanism, but on “do to others as you would have them do to you.” Yeah, actually, we already tried having states founded on Christianity. Didn’t really work to well, if I recall correctly. And, by the way, if this basically is his personal opinion, who is this “we” who he keeps referring to? And yes, it’s “we” in the original Norwegian as well, it’s not a botched translation. Nice rhetorical trick, dude, but please, don’t try to coax me into believing your views by a smart-ass use of pronouns. Really, the more I read this, the shadier it sounds. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/6 "2006-08-10T00:43:10Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > - this can be written off as standard anti-Israelism and not absolutely necessarily Anti-Semitic. However Gaarder continues with taking on the concept of the [chosen people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_a_chosen_people), which is also the the title of his piece, saying the basic concept is inherently “laughable”, “absurd”, “a crime against humanity” and “racist”. Well? The concept **is** all of those things and it’s not antisemitic to say so. > [@Rune](#): > > He further implies that Judaism (which he says has a “sadistic God”) is an archaic religion which compares unfavorable with Christianity and modern humanism. Also true, except for Christianity comparing favorably. But (religious) anti-Judaism != (racial/cultural) antisemitism. (The word “antisemitism,” in fact, was coined [in the 19th Century by anti-Jewish racists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#The_rise_of_racial_anti-Semitism) who needed a new word for their position, to distinguish it from the older religiously-based hatred of Judaism, known in Germany as _Judenhaas.)_ ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/7 "2006-08-10T01:59:07Z")
Anti-Semitism is a word that seems to mean different things to different people. for that reason, I avoid its use, for fear of misunderstanding. It seems perfectly consistent, to me, for a person to believe Israel shouldn’t exist as a nation, and that the major tenets of Judaism are stupid, while at the same time thinking Jewish culture, even with whatever flaws it may inherit from the fact that its members tend to practice Judaism, is nevertheless just fine and dandy, respectable and admirable and emulable even. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/8 "2006-08-10T03:23:30Z")
> [@Peak Banana](#): > > Also, shouldn’t this guy know better than conflating Judaism with the state of Israel? Since when is Israel a theocracy? Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Israel give any Jewish person the right to immigrate? A right not granted automatically to any other race/religion? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/9 "2006-08-10T03:35:24Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Israel give any Jewish person the right to immigrate? A right not granted automatically to any other race/religion? True, but “Jewish” is not only a religious identity but an ethnic/national identity, and the Zionist movement was founded primarily on the latter. Under the “Law of Return,” I’m fairly certain they’ll admit an avowed atheist with a Jewish mother (even if she’s an atheist too). ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/10 "2006-08-10T04:17:26Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > _“Israel, with its unscrupulous art of war and its disgusting weapons, has massacred its own legitimacy”_ Has Israel done anything that other nations have not? As far as I know, Germany, England, Russia, and the United States have killed plenty of innocent civilians during wartime. The United States dropped two atomic bombs on another nation’s cities. Does he also think that the United States does not deserve to exist? Is his problem the killing of civilians, or is he claiming that Israel has done something worse than that? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/11 "2006-08-10T08:07:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well? The concept **is** all of those things and it’s not antisemitic to say so. Well, yes it is. It can be described as “laughable” and “absurd”, as can the resurrection of Jesus and the visions of Muhammed, etc. However, saying it’s a “racist” and “a crime against humanity” is like saying Christian salvation or Islamic teaching are “a crime against humanity” and “racist” - this will not only land you an islamphobia designation, but very likely a day in court as well. And bear in mind that Gaarder specifically did not talk of the faith, but of the implementation of the faith, ie. not Judaism but Jews – this is the difference between saying Muhammed was a pedophile and all Muslims are pedophiles. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Also true, except for Christianity comparing favorably. But (religious) anti-Judaism != (racial/cultural) antisemitism. (The word “antisemitism,” in fact, was coined [in the 19th Century by anti-Jewish racists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#The_rise_of_racial_anti-Semitism) who needed a new word for their position, to distinguish it from the older religiously-based hatred of Judaism, known in Germany as _Judenhaas.)_ Would you describe yourself as an anti-Judaist, anti-Christian, anti-Islamic (islamphobe?) etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/12 "2006-08-10T14:48:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well? The concept **is** all of those things No it isn’t. Please educate yourself about what the concept of the “chosen people” actually _means_, as opposed to what Jew-haters _think_ it means. > **[CHOSEN PEOPLE - JewishEncyclopedia.com](https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4355-chosen-people)** > > Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia. > [@](#): > > Name for the Jewish people expressive of the idea of their having been chosen by God to fulfil the mission of proclaiming His truth among all the nations. This choice does not imply a superior claim, but a superior duty and responsibility on the part of the Jewish people, inasmuch as they have been pledged by the covenant which God concluded with Abraham, their ancestor, and again with the entire nation on Sinai, to testify, by precept and example, to the truth revealed to them, to lead a holy life as God’s priest-people, and, if needs be, sacrifice their very lives for the sake of this truth. The point is that being “chosen” is and was never intended to be a _benefit_, or thought of as implying some sort of racial or moral _superiority_; it was always intended to be a _burden_. Jews are supposed to adhere to _more_ commandments. Unlike (say) Christianity, Jews have no concept that only _they_ can be “saved”; on the contrary, non-Jews, not being “chosen” in the sense described above, can be just as moral as Jews according to Jewish tradition, as long as they follow the (much less intrusive) rules of the Noachian laws: > **[LAWS, NOACHIAN - JewishEncyclopedia.com](https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/9679-laws-noachian)** > > Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia. Like all religions, this whole business can no doubt be thought as “absurd” or “meaningless”. But how can anyone in their right mind think it is “racist” and “a crime against humanity”? > [@](#): > > and it’s not antisemitic to say so. Yes it is. And totally ignorant, in the bargain. > [@](#): > > Also true, except for Christianity comparing favorably. But (religious) anti-Judaism != (racial/cultural) antisemitism. (The word “antisemitism,” in fact, was coined [in the 19th Century by anti-Jewish racists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#The_rise_of_racial_anti-Semitism) who needed a new word for their position, to distinguish it from the older religiously-based hatred of Judaism, known in Germany as _Judenhaas.)_ Also not true [I’m uninterested in the semantic quibble about the use of “antisemitism”]. Once again, some education is called for. Like many Jew-hating Christians, this authour (and I guess you too, as you agree with him) apparently does not understand that the modern-day religion of Judaism is as much or more a creature of thousands of years of rabbinical interpretation, as of the books of Moses. Comes of reading (say) the Book of Joshua and not the Talmud, and thinking that modern-day Jews are basically no different from their Iron Age forebearers. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/13 "2006-08-11T14:49:13Z")
A few notes: 1. This is what passes for good writing in Norway? Or does “bestselling author” mean that we’re talking about the Scandinavian Dan Brown? Because that would explain a lot. 2. I’d like to see this bozo write something similar about Islam or Muslim states. Heh - he wouldn’t be caught dead doing that; Of course, he _might_ be caught dead if he _did_ do it. Hmm. Maybe if some Jewish fanatics (acting independently and spontaneously, of course) started killing European intellectuals they didn’t like the rest would fall in line. Just a thought. 1. As a response to Gaaaardner’s brave manifesto, from this day onward I refuse to recognize the state of Norway. As far as I’m concerned, the dissolution of the Kalmar Union never occured, or alternately, the 1905 seperation of Norway and Sweden was illegal and thus invalid. Don’t ask me why I’m doing this. Rest assured that history is on my side. Therefore, I will hereafter refer to the country as North Denmark, as West Sweden, or as the Norse Entity, depending upon how the mood strikes me. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/14 "2006-08-11T15:18:21Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > No it isn’t. Please educate yourself about what the concept of the “chosen people” actually _means_, as opposed to what Jew-haters _think_ it means. Thanks for being the one to point that out. That old anti-semitic canard (and **BG** , you should know better) was what really caught my eye reading the piece linked to by the OP. When people use an incorrect interpretation of what the phrase “chosen people” means, I am forced to question their level of knowledge. If they do it loudly, I am forced to question why they would hold forth on a topic which they knew nothing about. If they do so in service of an agenda which is directed at slamming the Jewish people, I am forced to question whether they are racists or simply ignorantly repeating hate. I’d hoped not to see it defended on the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/15 "2006-08-11T15:19:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > A few notes: > > 1. This is what passes for good writing in Norway? Or does “bestselling author” mean that we’re talking about the Scandinavian Dan Brown? Because that would explain a lot. For me, a sad part of this is that I really liked his book, _Sophie’s World_. It is a strange sensation to have the author of a modern book that you like reveal himself as a Jew-hating ignoramus. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/16 "2006-08-11T18:39:09Z")
Gaarder is not an ant-semite he’s just criticizing Israel and the concept “chosen by god” ---
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/17 "2006-08-11T18:47:21Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > 1. As a response to Gaaaardner’s brave manifesto, from this day onward I refuse to recognize the state of Norway. As far as I’m concerned, the dissolution of the Kalmar Union never occured, or alternately, the 1905 seperation of Norway and Sweden was illegal and thus invalid. Don’t ask me why I’m doing this. Rest assured that history is on my side. > > Therefore, I will hereafter refer to the country as North Denmark, as West Sweden, or as the Norse Entity, depending upon how the mood strikes me. There is a difference between separatism and hijacking a land that few of your ancestors where born - at the expense of those who have lived there for generations :wally ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/18 "2006-08-11T18:55:14Z")
Finn? Handle this, willya? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/19 "2006-08-11T19:04:52Z")
> [@Wildfire\*\*MM](#): > > Gaarder is not an ant-semite > > he’s just criticizing Israel and the concept “chosen by god” I’m sorry, but to display such basic ignorance of what you are criticizing must be held to be deliberate in an educated man such as Gaarder. The fact that he wrote _Sofie’s World_ proves that he is pretty well read, and so I find it really hard to imagine (for example) he doesn’t _know_ that his characterization of “the chosen people” is a lie, and one that is directly attributable to Jew-haters of the past. A small sample: > [@](#): > > We do not believe in the notion of God’s chosen people. We laugh at this people’s fancies and weep over its misdeeds. To act as God’s chosen people is not only stupid and arrogant, but a crime against humanity. We call it racism. It is a common Jew-hater’s canard, dating back to the ignorance of the Middle Ages, that the notion of “the chosen people” refers to Jewish self-belief in _innate superiority_. A moment’s research will reveal that it means nothing of the sort, as pointed out above. Making use of another well-know Jew-hater’s canard, it is the equivalent of stating “We love Jews as human beings, but we hate the fact that Jews are money grubbing usurers. We laugh at this people’s fancies and weep over its misdeeds. To act as money grubbing usurers is not only stupid and arrogant, but a crime against humanity. We call it racism.” And then to say “I’m not a Jew-hater - I’m just criticizing the concept of money-grubbing usury, as practiced by Jews”. In other words, it stinks. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990/20 "2006-08-11T19:08:35Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Therefore, I will hereafter refer to the country as North Denmark, as West Sweden, or as the Norse Entity, depending upon how the mood strikes me. You can also use the “Viking Invaders”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nowegian-bestselling-author-in-anti-semitic-rant/367990.md?page=2)