# NPR refuses to use the word "torture" so as not to take sides. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735 "2009-06-23T16:47:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/41 "2009-06-24T13:39:01Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Yes, funny how I keep unfairly taking note of the odd example of NPR’s “fair and balanced” approach to journalism. > > Read the comments to the ombudsman. Hell, take note of the fact that NPR’s ombudsman is supposed to represent the listeners, not the organization. Check out [NPRcheck.blogspot.com](http://NPRcheck.blogspot.com). Read the comments on the Greenwald article. Wait a minunte? NPR has an ombudsman to represent the listeners? The bastards!! An unbiased news organization wouldn’t need an ombudsman because none of the listeners would ever disagree with them. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/42 "2009-06-24T13:58:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > But my main purpose in this thead is to contest the notion that America in the main is a torturing entity. We have waterboarded three people, one of which was the 9-11 mastermind and whose waterboarding elicited information that prevented an attack on Los Angeles. Much like you’re a thieving entity if you only occasionally steal in a highly targeted manner, I think many would argue that using torture in ANY amount is morally reprehensible and taints one’s entire national image. > [@](#): > > I’m aware that everyone who has been voluntarily waterboarded has agreed that it was torture. Still, would you not agree that it is more humane and less harmful than the methods I outlined upthread? I’m sorry, but I just can’t get too worked up over the highly selective use of waterboarding on certain key prisoners who very likely have information that will save American lives. Personally, I think this is a slippery slope I don’t want to be anywhere near–as I said above, where we part ways is that in my opinion, ANY use of torture/enhanced interrogation/whatever you want to call it, basically anything that causes specific physical discomfort for the purposes of discomfort (or put the other way, anything beyond confinement in a reasonably-sized space and ordinary physical labor) demeans us as a nation, and I don’t believe it should be done. I think the America I love is better than that, and I’d happily stand up to be the first to die in a terrorist attack that was theoretically preventable if only we used those tactics in interrogation, because I think an America that doesn’t do such things is much more worth dying for. Your mileage obviously does vary. –Z, literal flag-flying patriot, military brat, registered Independent. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/43 "2009-06-24T13:59:57Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Wait a minunte? NPR has an ombudsman to represent the listeners? The bastards!! Yeah, all these checks just prove that the balances are broken. A lack of oversight is the hallmark of a truly fair system. Wait, what? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/44 "2009-06-24T14:03:10Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m aware that everyone who has been voluntarily waterboarded has agreed that it was torture. Still, would you not agree that it is more humane and less harmful than the methods I outlined upthread? I’m sorry, but I just can’t get too worked up over the highly selective use of waterboarding on certain key prisoners who very likely have information that will save American lives. > > I know that you very likely don’t agree with me, and coming from you I respect that, but it’s the eagerness and dishonesty with which so many posters around here try to portray the U.S. as gleefully torturing anyone and everyone it can that I’m challenging, and not so much whether or not waterboarding itself actually qualifies as torture. > > Take good care my friend. I hope you are safe, wherever you are. You know, I read this post, and thought “that’s pretty reasonable!” Then I read it again, and realized it wasn’t. Anyone could be a “key prisoner”. Remember how “selective” they were about sending people to Guantanamo? Cab driver goes to the wrong checkpoint? He’s a terrorist! Lock him up for five years! Is the US gleefully torturing anyone and everyone? Of course not. Does that make it _alright_? Equally surely, of course not. The moment we tortured Khalid Mohammed, the terrorists won, based on the goalposts as emplaced by the Bush Administration. “They hate our freedoms,” said Bush, and promptly raised a white flag and started taking those freedoms away. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/45 "2009-06-24T14:52:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is the US gleefully torturing anyone and everyone? Of course not. The soldiers in some of the Abu Ghraib pictures looked rather gleeful. Of course other people may have made more appropriate and respectful faces at the time, so it wasn’t so much a breach of Emily Post. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/46 "2009-06-24T15:17:06Z")
Thank you for the link there, **Starv**. It is always good to expand one’s sources of news, and I was previously unaware of the estimable CNSNews - “The Right News. Right Now” - if ever there was a motto to inspire faith in objectivity and strict, non-partisan truth, that would be it! Why, “Fair and Balanced” doesn’t compare. > **[Fact Sheet: Keeping America Safe From Attack](https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070523.html)** > > Today, President Bush Delivered The Commencement Address At The U.S. Coast Guard Academy In New London, Connecticut. The President congratulated graduates and their families, praised the Coast Guards excellence in times of disaster and in the War on... > [@](#): > > …In 2002, we broke up a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast. During a hearing at Guantanamo Bay two months ago, KSM stated that the intended target was the Library Tower in Los Angeles… Please note the date. Ponder it carefully. > **[Fox News - Breaking News Updates | Latest News Headlines | Photos & News Video](https://www.foxnews.com/)** > > Breaking News, Latest News and Current News from FOXNews.com. Breaking news and video. Latest Current News: U.S., World, Entertainment, Health, Business, Technology, Politics, Sports. > [@](#): > > …Mohammed, one of the most hunted men in the world and the suspected mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, was captured early Saturday in Pakistan by Pakistani authorities and officers from the Central Intelligence Agency, according to U.S. and Pakistani officials… Dated, you will note, Saturday, March 1, 2003. See the problem? Perhaps not. Well, 2003 is later than 2002. A bit sticky, don’t you think? Or don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/47 "2009-06-24T15:21:25Z")
But what about putting somebody in a box with a caterpillar. Is that unquestionably torture? Waterboarding is the sexy argument, but it’s only 1 of a variety of enhanced interrogation techniques used, most of which **are** debatable. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/48 "2009-06-24T15:38:02Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > But what about putting somebody in a box with a caterpillar. Is that unquestionably torture? No, but it’s hilarious that anyone would want to bring that up as a possible questionable case, even though it _is_ a questionable case\*, considering its associations. \*Of torture, that is. I think it would probably be “cruel and unusual punishment”, however. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/49 "2009-06-24T15:42:49Z")
That is, of course, if you believe that the CIA has revealed all the methods it used. Guantanamo prisoners have alleged much worse stuff than waterboarding and the (at least) 41 suicide attempts by prisoners suggest that there’s some truth to the claims. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/50 "2009-06-24T15:48:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Only when Jonathan Schwartz is on, and waterboarding is too good for that pedantic, Sinatra-fellating lipsmacker. > > This is a really interesting debate, though. And it’s not unique to NPR, since every other news outlet I’ve heard has favored phrases like “enhanced interrogation techniques” to avoid taking a side. Problem is, that’s not the neutral term, it’s the Bush administration’s term, and by doing so, they’re giving away the debate. Correct. Remember that Republicans pretty much universally agreed with the American consensus that waterboarding is torture through numerous administrations. The idea that waterboarding might _not_ be torture is a brand-new one to the public conversation, introduced solely by one administration. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/51 "2009-06-24T15:55:46Z")
Why don’t they just say “alleged torture techniques” or “disputed torture techniques”? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/52 "2009-06-24T16:30:00Z")
I don’t think you guys are paying enough attention to **Sinaijon’s** point. No doubt the stunning revelation that the CIA has a time machine has wobbled your minds… One of the techniques is “debatable”. Which means its entirely possible that one of the techniques was not, in fact, torture. Which would lead inexorably to the conclusion that not all of the techniques applied to these terrorists masterminds (well, of course they are! They confessed!..) was torture! Those of you who have insisted that all of the techniques applied were torture should immediately come forth with retractions and abject apologies. You know who you are! Upon preview: I see that **RNATB** has made a first, faltering step towards just such an _mea fuckup_. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/53 "2009-06-24T17:56:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m aware that everyone who has been voluntarily waterboarded has agreed that it was torture. Still, would you not agree that it is more humane and less harmful than the methods I outlined upthread? I’m sorry, but I just can’t get too worked up over the highly selective use of waterboarding on certain key prisoners who very likely have information that will save American lives. > > I know that you very likely don’t agree with me, and coming from you I respect that, but it’s the eagerness and dishonesty with which so many posters around here try to portray the U.S. as gleefully torturing anyone and everyone it can that I’m challenging, and not so much whether or not waterboarding itself actually qualifies as torture. It is not whether the US tortured one or one thousand people. It is that the US worked to redefine things so the use of torture is tolerable. That should scare the crap out of you if you bothered to think about it for a moment rather than wrapping yourself in the flag and sticking your fingers in your ears. We have shown on this Board, through numerous cites from actual interrogators (both US and other countries), that torture as a means to extract actionable intelligence is deeply flawed and nearly worthless for that purpose. Note these guys are not peacenik hippy love freaks. These are guys who, in many cases, were literally at the pointy end of the sword dealing with near literal ticking time bomb scenarios and personally knew the people who would die if they failed. Patriots in all senses of the word and I have no doubt they’d have hooked a car battery to some guy’s nutsack if they thought it’d save their troops. They didn’t and for good reason. There were better means available to gain intelligence. You want to save American lives? Great! Unfortunately using torture to achieve that goal works completely against you. By advocating torture you make this country less safe. Not only because it produces terrible information that is more often misleading than helpful but also because you embolden our enemies by its use. With friends like you who needs enemies? EDIT: Oh yeah…and waterboarding is torture. It is torture as defined by the United States in the past. It is deemed torture by people who torture. Unless of course you think the Gestapo and Pol Pot and the Spanish Inquisition were a bunch of pussies putting people into comfy chairs before asking them questions. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/54 "2009-06-24T18:14:46Z")
Without what we like to think of as our American ideals, the only reason for Americans to wish to protect their country amounts to tribalism. Tribalism as a stand-alone motivator is pretty much the quintessential UnAmerican ideal. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/55 "2009-06-25T00:51:10Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Yes, funny how I keep unfairly taking note of the odd example of NPR’s “fair and balanced” approach to journalism. Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. -Groucho Marx The above quote is funny. What you are doing is pathetic. You’re like the UFO conspiracy theorist making fun of the JFK conspiracy theorist. “NPR doesn’t have a liberal bias. It has a conservative bias. My proof is so much more proofier than your proof.” Can’t help but wonder why, if NPR was such a potent part of President Bush’s propaganda program (loves me some alliteration), they continue to do so after Dubya has left the building. I betcha that the republicans have fallen back on the journalistative branch after losing control of the legislative and the executive. :eek: One can only hope that the democrats can ferret them all out. In closing, you’re a nut. You have a rubber butt, and when you turn around it goes putt putt. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/56 "2009-06-25T02:37:19Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I don’t think you guys are paying enough attention to **Sinaijon’s** point. No doubt the stunning revelation that the CIA has a time machine has wobbled your minds… > > One of the techniques is “debatable”. Which means its entirely possible that one of the techniques was not, in fact, torture. Which would lead inexorably to the conclusion that not all of the techniques applied to these terrorists masterminds (well, of course they are! They confessed!..) was torture! > > Those of you who have insisted that all of the techniques applied were torture should immediately come forth with retractions and abject apologies. You know who you are! > > Upon preview: I see that **RNATB** has made a first, faltering step towards just such an _mea fuckup_. The point here is that it _is_ debatable, since we’re currently debating it- although I would argue that the people who think it isn’t torture are toeing an almost laughably obvious party line. And, for the record, it wasn’t a faltering step. I step _with authority_, dammit. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/57 "2009-06-25T02:47:50Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. -Groucho Marx > > The above quote is funny. What you are doing is pathetic. You’re like the UFO conspiracy theorist making fun of the JFK conspiracy theorist. “NPR doesn’t have a liberal bias. It has a conservative bias. My proof is so much more proofier than your proof.” > > Can’t help but wonder why, if NPR was such a potent part of President Bush’s propaganda program (loves me some alliteration), they continue to do so after Dubya has left the building. I betcha that the republicans have fallen back on the journalistative branch after losing control of the legislative and the executive. :eek: One can only hope that the democrats can ferret them all out. > > In closing, you’re a nut. You have a rubber butt, and when you turn around it goes putt putt. Uh huh… I see. You seem quite pissy, and it can’t be all in defense of NPR. I wonder if there’s something that’s making you particularly butthurt… hmmm. Anything happen recently? Some kind of ass-kicking that you had been mouthing off about that left you embarrassed? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/58 "2009-06-25T07:18:41Z")
…firstly **Starving Artist** , I must remind you that you still owe me a beer. I cannot for the life of me remember why you owe me a beer, but I am looking thirstily forward to it! 😉 > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Perhaps I should clarify the circumstances under which I think torture, whether waterboarding or some other method, is justified. I don’t approve of torture if it’s used to obtain confessions. Of course almost anyone would confess to anything to get that torture to stop. And I don’t approve of its use as a fishing expedition to see if someone knows something. I agree with all of these things, and I am glad to hear that you do to. > [@](#): > > But I do approve of it if there is ample evidence that the person in question has been involved in planning attacks on Americans or her allies - whether the targets are military or civilian - and that the information elicited is likely to result in thwarting those attacks or in saving lives. Is it only Americans and their allies who should be allowed to use torture? Consider Iraq. An estimated 9000 Iraqi soldiers died defending Iraq from coalition forces. [Cite.](http://www.comw.org/pda/0310rm8.html#4.%20Iraqi%20combatant%20fatalities%20in%20the%202003) In defense of country and their fellow man, would you excuse an Iraqi military officer from waterboarding a captured US soldier to find out information that may save Iraqi lives? I am not American, and since the ANZUS relationship was suspended United States representatives have described our relationship as: “a friend, but not an ally”. This is despite the fact that the NZSAS was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation for their work during Operation Enduring Freedom. So as a “non-US ally”, would it be right to torture someone to protect our nation? In 1985 French Secret Service Agents planted a bomb on the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior in Auckland Harbour and it exploded, killing one man in it’s aftermath. France is an ally of the United States, NZ is (arguably) not. Who, in your opinion, would have the right to waterboard to protect its interest in this case? > [@](#): > > I would also approve of its use in order to obtain information as to where hostages are being held…and especially in those cases where the hostages are likely to be beheaded or otherwise killed by their captors in order to make some sort of political statement. Would you only be willing to use torture that doesn’t leave a mark? > [@](#): > > But my main purpose in this thead is to contest the notion that America in the main is a torturing entity. We have waterboarded three people, one of which was the 9-11 mastermind and whose waterboarding elicited information that prevented an attack on Los Angeles. In view of this extremely limited use of waterboarding by the U.S. (and use that has prevented innocent American deaths at that) it hardly stands to reason in my mind to portray the United States as an entity that wantonly engages in wholesale torturing of its prisoners, which is how many posters around here are prone to characterize things. With respect: if America engages in torture, it is a torturing entity. The US has only used waterboarding three times, but has routinely used stress positions, sleep deprevation and other techniques that cause extreme pain and stress but do not leave marks. The FBI witnessed a detainee chained to the floor in the fetal position, left to defecate himself and without food and water for 24 hours. These are not civilised actions. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A14936-2004Dec20?language=printer](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A14936-2004Dec20?language=printer) > [@](#): > > I’m aware that everyone who has been voluntarily waterboarded has agreed that it was torture. Still, would you not agree that it is more humane and less harmful than the methods I outlined upthread? I’m sorry, but I just can’t get too worked up over the highly selective use of waterboarding on certain key prisoners who very likely have information that will save American lives. Sorry my friend, but I cannot agree that waterboarding is more humane and less harmful. The only difference between waterboarding and the methods of torture you talk about are that one method will leave physical damage to the body, and the other will not. They both will cause agonising pain and long lasting mental after-affects. Do you conceede that waterboarding is torture? > [@](#): > > I know that you very likely don’t agree with me, and coming from you I respect that, but it’s the eagerness and dishonesty with which so many posters around here try to portray the U.S. as gleefully torturing anyone and everyone it can that I’m challenging, and not so much whether or not waterboarding itself actually qualifies as torture. I wouldn’t portray the US as gleefully torturing everyone it can, and I do not believe that is the intent of the majority of posters here. But what we don’t want to happen is all of this to be swept under the carpet. The United States is the only real world superpower now. There is nothing to stop your nation from literally doing anything: since the start of the war on terror the US has snatched people from the streets of Italy, the airports of Bosnia and Hotels in Gambia. And in almost all cases after being held in detention for years at places like Guantanemo Bay these people have been released with no charge, with it being revealed later on that they had no real evidence anyway. There are two things that stop the US from turning into an absolute rouge superpower: your constitution and the will of your people. And when the US steps over the mark the people make noises, and so they should, and loudly. Sweep these incidents under the carpet: ignore them or redefine them: these are your rights. But it won’t change reality. > [@](#): > > Take good care my friend. I hope you are safe, wherever you are. And you be safe too. 🙂 The recession is hitting us hard over here in NZ, but we are doing well to keep our heads above water. …and finally… > **[Tui](https://www.db.co.nz/tui/)** If you ever make it this far down this far, I look forward to shouting you Tui all night! ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/59 "2009-06-25T09:56:25Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Uh huh… I see. You seem quite pissy, and it can’t be all in defense of NPR. I wonder if there’s something that’s making you particularly butthurt… hmmm. Anything happen recently? Some kind of ass-kicking that you had been mouthing off about that left you embarrassed? Really? You think this is because of the hockey thread? And you still think I was “mouthing off?” That space between your ears must be a magical world, full of Keebler elves riding My Little Ponies all the way to Rainbrow Brites castle. Oh my Hentor. This has nothing to do with the hockey thread. You see, my tone is farther from “pissy” and closer to mildly amused. Think Joel McHale from The Soup. I’m mocking you because you’re dumb. That you still think this comes back to the stanley cup thread is even more comical. Keep on rockin’ there brah.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2009, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735/60 "2009-06-25T10:32:29Z")
Harborwolf, you use a word like “brah”, and I’m supposed to be the dumb one? Come off it - the butthurt is coming off you in waves. People standing in your proximity are getting contact butthurt. As to NPR and their politics, I think we can safely discard the myth that they are liberal. Are they conservative? Well, I offer NPR’s Cokie Roberts, NPR’s Mara Liasson, and NPR’s Juan Williams as evidence. Their practices have certainly helped the Republicans efforts to muddy the political discussion in the country. Don’t forget - they were one of the few media outlets to report finding WMDs in Iraq. And now, in an effort not to take sides on an issue, they take the side of Dick Cheney in using double-speak and obfuscation rather than calling torture torture. If it looks like a duck and does all those other duckly things… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/npr-refuses-to-use-the-word-torture-so-as-not-to-take-sides/500735.md?page=4)