# NRA Enables Mexican Cartels' in their Drug Wars **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 19, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028 "2010-05-19T17:58:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/81 "2010-05-20T19:02:56Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Yes, when you lie about what a machine gun is, people step in to correct you. What’s wrong with that? If you called a cessna 152 a jet fighter and then talk about how dangerous general aviation is and needs to be banned, people would probably step in and correct that to. And your answer would be OH YEAH I’VE HEARD ALL OF YOUR NITPICKING I DON’T CARE, JUST GONNA GO WITH IGNORANCE HERE THANKS. If you continued on thread after thread about how cessna 152s are jet fighters, you would be a liar. And that’s what you are here. You’re going to give yourself a stroke. I didn’t lie about what a machine gun was, because I never claimed anything about them. I just used the oh so hilarious turn-of-phrase: “endless bitching because someone might use the term ‘machine gun’ outside of the NRA mandated term usage rules.” And what did I get? Endless bitching because someone used the term “machine gun” outside of the NRA mandated term usage rules. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/82 "2010-05-20T19:03:08Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > You’re saying that it would be politically EASY to ban most hunting rifles if it weren’t for NRA opposition? Seriously? Sounds to me like you’ve been smoking what the Mexican cartels are selling. > > I agree with **xtisme** - if the cartels want _real_ AK-47s, with real fully automatic fire capability, they wouldn’t have to look very far to find them. But they won’t find them in the US. In the US, they’ll just find crippled semi-auto fire AK-47-lookalikes. If they actually want semi-auto .223’s, they don’t need to buy AK-47-lookalikes, they could just buy Remingtons with friendly-looking wood stocks. If what you’re interested in is the ability to shoot people with them, there’s no functional difference. > > And I say this as a non-American, non-gun-owing, non-NRA member. Hmm. An interesting question. I would say that it would be difficult to ban ordinary hunting rifles, NRA or no, though it would be MUCH easier without the NRA. But without the NRA, banning the sort of weapons that can easily be transformed into something like an assault weapon, as well as assault weapons themselves, would be all kinds of easy. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/83 "2010-05-20T19:14:10Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] Hmm. An interesting question. I would say that it would be difficult to ban ordinary hunting rifles, NRA or no, though it would be MUCH easier without the NRA. But without the NRA, banning the sort of weapons that can easily be transformed into something like an assault weapon, as well as assault weapons themselves, would be all kinds of easy. [/QUOTE] Leaving aside the ‘assault weapon’ part of this (which I think is a ridiculous claim on your part, FTR), it’s hard for me to imagine no gun advocacy group in the US that wouldn’t fill the same role as the NRA, if there was no NRA. IOW, SOMETHING would always fill that niche, even if the organization had a different name, simply because of how our system operates and how many citizens in the US want to continue to keep weapons. Attempting to envision a US without an organization like the NRA (or, conversely, like AARP, NAACP or any number of other advocacy groups) is futile IMHO, because it’s not going to happen unless our system itself has a fundamental change or shift to something that bears no resemblance to the system we have. YMMV, and if you want to fantasize about a US without an NRA (and without some other organization filling that niche but simply named differently) then that’s your affair, but it’s really not reality based, and the question therefore isn’t really all that ‘interesting’. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/84 "2010-05-20T19:24:38Z")
To add to what’s been said upthread: if there was ever a time in the US when you could buy a semi-automatic version of a full-auto firearm and “file off the interrupter pin” and presto have a full-automatic, those days are long gone. It’s been the law for decades now that semi-automatics be designed so to not be convertable without replacing most of the internal mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/85 "2010-05-20T19:27:32Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > You’re going to give yourself a stroke. No, I’m surrounded by ignorance for my entire life, much of it willful. While it certainly bothers me, you’re nothing special. > [@](#): > > I didn’t lie about what a machine gun was, because I never claimed anything about them. I just used the oh so hilarious turn-of-phrase: “endless bitching because someone might use the term ‘machine gun’ outside of the NRA mandated term usage rules.” > > And what did I get? Endless bitching because someone used the term “machine gun” outside of the NRA mandated term usage rules. Go figure. Ah, so you say something wrong and inflammatory and then set it up so that when someone objects, you can say SEE HAHAHA THIS IS WHAT I MEANT ALL ALONG. We all know what you meant, you were implicitly responding to an argument not yet made but that probably would be. This is just weaseling. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > banning the sort of weapons that can easily be transformed into something like an assault weapon, as well as assault weapons themselves, would be all kinds of easy. I know you probably have no idea that you have no idea what you’re talking about, but if you’re interested in understanding, we’ve [done](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=275202&highlight=assault+weapons) [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=275265&highlight=assault+weapons) [many](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=267629&highlight=assault+weapons) [times](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=275673&highlight=assault+weapons) [before](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=478916&highlight=assault+weapons). [bonus!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508266&highlight=assault+weapons) If you want the TLDR version: the term “assault weapon” is meaningless - it’s a political term used to sound like “assault rifle” and deliberately designed to make people conflate the two. But the weapons popularly called “assault weapons” do not share the functionality of assault rifles. They can look similar and be based off the same models, but functionally they are no different from thousands of less menacing looking “legitimate” sporting weapons. And so all assault weapon bans are based on superficial or cosmetic features - because weapons that can be banned by functional features already are. So they define an assault weapon (at least the 94 AWB) by a collection of traits like bayonette lugs, pistol grips, folding stocks, and muzzle attachments - essentially, since they can’t define how assault weapons function (since they’re the same as many many publically accepted weapons), they define them by what they look like - or at least secondary features. I doubt the number of drive by bayonettings are a public safety issue. So your use of the phrase “banning the sort of weapons that can easily be transformed into something like an assault weapon” doesn’t even make sense, unless you mean taking a not-quite-qualified-as-an-assault-weapon and changing the stock and putting a bayonette lug on it. Which I’m sure you don’t, since it’s silly. Which indicates that you don’t understand what an “assault weapon” is because you’ve been mislead by the media and the anti-gun lobby. Which you can find out more about by reading those threads. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/86 "2010-05-20T19:30:27Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > the sort of weapons that can easily be transformed into something like an assault weapon, Assuming that by “assault weapon” you mean “capable of firing multiple bullets on a single trigger pull”, the number of these weapons currently for sale in the US is essentially zero. You need to buy a registered and tax-stamped and highly controlled bit of assembly to do it legally, and to do it illegally requires a fairly high amount of gunsmithing experience/expertise for a less-reliable and less-sturdy firearm than if you’d just smuggled one in from somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/87 "2010-05-20T19:35:03Z")
I certainly hope \*\*SenorBeef \*\*doesn’t own any \*assault weapons \*… he sounds unstable. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/88 "2010-05-20T19:38:18Z")
It’s funny you should say that. I don’t actually own any weapons that would qualify under the '94 AWB, because they actually took a saw and ripped off the bayonette lug on one of my rifles. So don’t worry, no danger here. But your whole line of trolling here is tiresome and boring. I don’t sound unstable whatsoever - I have been level headed and rational at every point in this debate. You’re being a weasely troll making personal attacks because you know you have no merit on which to argue the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/89 "2010-05-20T19:45:56Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Proudly ignorant. You do the board a great service. No surprise there – many people who are ignorant, or illiterate, or otherwise possessing any significant deficiency which they could with effort correct, seem to take a perverse pride their deficiency, as though it makes them better men than the pedants who demean themselves with undue attention to irrelevant conceits such as _accuracy_ and _reality_. Pointing out their flaw never helps: they just see it as more proof that the problem lies with _you_. > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I certainly hope \*\*SenorBeef \*\*doesn’t own any \*assault weapons \*… he sounds unstable. For what it’s worth, I don’t think I’d have any particular reason to worry if **SenorBeef** were behind me with an M1 Abrams. _You_, on the other hand, would make me nervous if you had anything more dangerous than a toothpick. I’d be afraid that you, not being sufficiently educated to tell the difference, might have picked up an assault toothpick by mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/90 "2010-05-20T19:46:31Z")
A personal attack in the Pit. What the fuck was I thinking? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/91 "2010-05-20T19:48:56Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > A personal attack in the Pit. What the fuck was I thinking? Do you actually have a position worth articulating or are you trolling? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/92 "2010-05-20T19:49:46Z")
It’s not the presence of the personal attack that bothers me, but moreso the deliberate ignorance and lack of an argument. I’m just making sure it’s totally clear that you’re doing way more weaseltrolling than saying anything of substance. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/93 "2010-05-20T19:57:16Z")
Where do you all get the idea that the NRA is the only pro-gun organization? 😕 There are dozens, if not hundreds. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/94 "2010-05-20T20:30:22Z")
Notwithstanding some people clinging desperately to their willful ignorance, [American media’s reporting on gun rights grows more accurate](http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m5d18-American-medias-reporting-on-gun-rights-grows-more-accurate). > [@](#): > > America’s free press started to report more accurately on gun rights issues as anti-gun rights voodoo-public policy incantations about “assault weapons,” “private dealers,” and “gun show loopholes” have been outed. > … > Many or most Americans now know that the term “ **assault weapon** ” is a made up term which does not relate to machine guns but simply normal one-shot-per-trigger-pull-rifles which have features like pistol grips which some find cosmetically offensive. By continuing to bandy these terms around as if they were meaningful they relegate themselves to the ranks of the flat-earthers and moon-landing-hoaxers. People to be looked upon with pity rather than taken seriously. So if the media can be educated, then the fight on ignorance is progressing. Slow progress certainly, but progress. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/95 "2010-05-20T20:34:06Z")
Anecdotally that seems true to me but I don’t watch nearly as much TV and mainstream news as before. I wonder if anyone has quantified a potential shift in how the media treats guns. I’ve seen various reports made 3-6 years ago detailing the number of slanted gun stories in the media and it’s probably the most blatant issue on which they lie about. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/96 "2010-05-21T00:17:01Z")
How on Earth did ANY ban on weapons of this sort with “scary-looking attachments” get passed in the first place? Did no one with sanity show up at the congressional hearings to set the record straight? Aren’t there any hunters amongst our elected representatives? What a complete knee-jerk, ignorant pile of shit that is. We’re regressing towards muskets. But no bayonets on those either, please. For the children’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/97 "2010-05-21T00:27:29Z")
Hunters are dicks. Most of them are fine with banning “what do you need them for anyway?” weapons based on modern military designs as long as you don’t touch their duck guns. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/98 "2010-05-21T00:40:18Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > How on Earth did ANY ban on weapons of this sort with “scary-looking attachments” get passed in the first place? Did no one with sanity show up at the congressional hearings to set the record straight? Aren’t there any hunters amongst our elected representatives? > > What a complete knee-jerk, ignorant pile of shit that is. > > We’re regressing towards muskets. But no bayonets on those either, please. For the children’s sake. Pretty much a conflation of the following:[ol] [li]The gun control crowd would like to see the eventual abolition of firearms from private ownership. Any ban of any type of gun is a step towards this.[/li][li]Worries about gang and drug related urban gun violence, including the belief that criminals were obtaining military-grade weaponry, the result perhaps of a handful of sensationalized news stories and reruns of Miami Vice. People will almost always support banning _those other_ people from owning guns.[/li][li]Large segments of the population have confused notions about firearms; many perhaps thought it was a ban on full-automatic firearms, or firearms whose features somehow made them functionally deadlier than dad’s deer rifle.[/li][li]Congresspersons who will vote for anything that they think will get them reelected, no matter how stupid they know it is.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/99 "2010-05-21T00:55:15Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Hunters are dicks. Most of them are fine with banning “what do you need them for anyway?” weapons based on modern military designs as long as you don’t touch their duck guns. There may be some truth to that. Goddamn purists with their double-barreled shotguns loaded with birdshot for hunting quail in Nantucket. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Pretty much a conflation of the following:[ol] > [li]The gun control crowd would like to see the eventual abolition of firearms from private ownership. Any ban of any type of gun is a step towards this.[/li][li]Worries about gang and drug related urban gun violence, including the belief that criminals were obtaining military-grade weaponry, the result perhaps of a handful of sensationalized news stories and reruns of Miami Vice. People will almost always support banning _those other_ people from owning guns.[/li][li]Large segments of the population have confused notions about firearms; many perhaps thought it was a ban on full-automatic firearms, or firearms whose features somehow made them functionally deadlier than dad’s deer rifle.[/li][li]Congresspersons who will vote for anything that they think will get them reelected, no matter how stupid they know it is.[/li][/ol] **sighs** I only don’t own a firearm because I have small boys and live in a quiet, relatively safe residential neighborhood. But once my sons are grown enough, and if I feel I need a goddamn gun, then I’ll fucking buy one. I don’t understand the argument as presented. The OP is pretty out there. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028/100 "2010-05-21T02:12:48Z")
Claiming that the definition of “machine gun” is an NRA-mandated term is factually incorrect. [http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=5d5f4f6f83202af42d9a15461d7f0943&rgn=div8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.4.2.16.1&idno=27](http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=5d5f4f6f83202af42d9a15461d7f0943&rgn=div8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.4.2.16.1&idno=27) > [@](#): > > Machine gun. Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machine gun, and any combination of parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-enables-mexican-cartels-in-their-drug-wars/540028.md?page=6)