# NRA plants mole/spy in gun-control organizations **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 21, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811 "2008-08-21T16:11:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/1 "2008-08-21T16:11:50Z")
[_Mother Jones_](http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/mary-mcfate-sapone-gun-lobby-nra-spy.html) broke the story: > [@](#): > > This is the story of two Marys. Both are in their early 60s, heavyset, with curly reddish hair. But for years they have worked on opposite ends of the same issues. Mary McFate is an advocate of environmental causes and a prominent activist within the gun control movement. For more than a decade, she volunteered for various gun violence prevention organizations, serving on the boards of anti-gun outfits, helping state groups coordinate their activities, lobbying in Washington for gun control legislation, and regularly attending strategy and organizing meetings. > > Mary Lou Sapone, by contrast, is a self-described “research consultant,” who for decades has covertly infiltrated citizens groups for private security firms hired by corporations that are targeted by activist campaigns. For some time, Sapone also worked for the National Rifle Association. > > But these two Marys share a lot in common—a Mother Jones investigation has found that McFate and Sapone are, in fact, the same person. And this discovery has caused the leaders of gun violence prevention organizations to conclude that for years they have been penetrated—at the highest levels—by the NRA or other pro-gun parties. “It raises the question,” says Paul Helmke, the president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, “of what did she find out and what did they want her to find out.” [More on Mary Lou Sapone:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Lou_Sapone) > [@](#): > > In the late 1980s, while working for Perceptions International, she infiltrated a Connecticut animal rights group. Perceptions International was hired by the U.S. Surgical Corporation.[2] She gathered evidence on a member, Fran Trutt, who was later arrested for planting a pipe bomb. Trutt later accused Sapone of coaxing her into the act, stating that on her way to carry out the bombing she lost her nerve and placed a call to Sapone, who convinced her to follow through with the plan. Activists accused Sapone of acting as an agent provocateur.[1] > > Working for BBI, in 1998, Sapone recruited a paid operative to infiltrate an environmental group called CLEAN in Louisiana.[2] What I wanna know is, how many others are there?! ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/2 "2008-08-21T16:18:04Z")
So what? Didn’t Michael Moore join the NRA just so he could do his film? What’s the difference? And really, if she’s been a “prominent member of the gun control lobby”, why are they complaining? I don’t see the problem here. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/3 "2008-08-21T16:20:42Z")
Good. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/4 "2008-08-21T16:26:41Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Good. [/QUOTE] I think you mean “Yee-haw”. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/5 "2008-08-21T16:36:22Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Good. [/QUOTE] Ditto. I wonder if she was packing heat at the meetings. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/6 "2008-08-21T16:38:40Z")
[QUOTE=friedo] Ditto. I wonder if she was packing heat at the meetings. [/QUOTE] I’ll third this. How many spies do the gun grabbers have in the NRA and GOA? I’m sure the answer is not 0. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/7 "2008-08-21T16:39:14Z")
[QUOTE=Tristan] Didn’t Michael Moore join the NRA just so he could do his film? [/QUOTE] He claims he was a lifetime member well before the film. Do you have evidence to think otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/8 "2008-08-21T16:40:22Z")
Do people really have nothing better to do with their time? What the hell do you gain by infiltrating anti-gun clubs “at the highest levels”? A fez in every color? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/9 "2008-08-21T16:43:37Z")
If an _animal rights group_ is willing to use _explosives_ to achieve their ends, why should I take their word for it when they all start pointing fingers at the infiltrator, who was actually a contractor hired by their target? Am I supposed to believe that they’d use terror tactics to get their way, but draw the line at lying? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/10 "2008-08-21T16:46:33Z")
[QUOTE=ZebraShaSha] Do people really have nothing better to do with their time? What the hell do you gain by infiltrating anti-gun clubs “at the highest levels”? A fez in every color? [/QUOTE] It’s one thing to keep tabs on the other side. It’s another thing to conspire to commit terrorist acts with them, or indeed, to prod the other side into terrorist acts. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/11 "2008-08-21T17:10:49Z")
[QUOTE=ZebraShaSha] Do people really have nothing better to do with their time? What the hell do you gain by infiltrating anti-gun clubs “at the highest levels”? A fez in every color? [/QUOTE] Political espionage: > [@](#): > > McFate’s (now former) colleagues note that she was well-positioned for many years to provide the NRA—or any other gun rights groups—the plans, secrets, and inside gossip of practically the entire gun violence prevention movement. “She had access to all the legislative strategy for every major issue for years,” says Rand. Another gun control advocate who worked with McFate and asked not to be identified recalls, “She was one of those rare people. As a volunteer, she wanted to know more and more about what people were working on.” With intelligence gathered by McFate, Ceasefire New Jersey’s Miller says, the gun lobby could “learn a lot: what the grassroots of the gun violence prevention movement intended; where our priorities are shifting; which legislation we would be promoting or fighting against and what sort of effort we would be putting into that; who our targeted legislators would be; what states and districts we deemed important enough to put an effort into; our messaging, what our messaging would be before we put it out there.” ---
**Author:** ![Sanity\_Challenged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Sanity\_Challenged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sanity_Challenged)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/12 "2008-08-21T17:59:50Z")
Is this really that surprising? Heck, just take a 10-minute scan of GD and tell me the SDMB hasn’t been infiltrated by the pro-ignorance movement on a sizeable scale. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/13 "2008-08-21T18:02:17Z")
[QUOTE=VunderBob] How many spies do the gun grabbers have in the NRA and GOA? I’m sure the answer is not 0. [/QUOTE] Perhaps, but sitting in at the open-to-the-public meetings and taking notes is one thing, and routine, and all I would reasonably attribute to the “spies” you postulate; volunteering for organization-related activities, making friends with the leaders, and working your way into a high-level position of trust and responsibility, all under false and treacherous pretenses, is quite another. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/14 "2008-08-21T18:06:07Z")
[QUOTE=Sanity Challenged] Is this really that surprising? Heck, just take a 10-minute scan of GD and tell me the SDMB hasn’t been infiltrated by the pro-ignorance movement on a sizeable scale. [/QUOTE] Yes, of course – but they’re not making any secret of who they are! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/15 "2008-08-21T18:07:13Z")
I honestly don’t see a problem here. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/16 "2008-08-21T18:15:58Z")
They should have taken her out back and shot her. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/17 "2008-08-21T18:23:14Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] They should have taken her out back and shot her. [/QUOTE] No, a REALLY severe scolding. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/18 "2008-08-21T18:48:22Z")
Maybe the \*Mother Jones \* people can put down the weed long enough to investigate the Pope’s religion or the state of matter of water? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/19 "2008-08-21T20:01:50Z")
It’s bizarre. Mother Jones’s whole thing is that they’re supposed to be a radical left publication. A heavy dose of “off the pig” anti-police sentiment and fear of the military, and an extremely strong distrust of the government. And yet…who do they want to have the monopoly on gun ownership? Why…_the government._ Abbie Hoffman would be spinning over in his grave. There was a whole chapter in _Steal This Book_ about different kinds of guns and how to get them. [QUOTE=Abbie Hoffman] There are two commonly available types of rifles; the bolt action and the semi-automatic. War surplus bolt action rifles are cheap and usually pretty accurate, but have a slower rate of fire than a semi-automatic. A semi-automatic is preferable in nearly all cases. The M-1 carbine is probably the best semi-automatic for the money (about $80). It’s light, short, easy to handle and has only the drawback of a cartridge that’s a little underpowered. Among bolt actions, the Springfield, Mauser, Royal Enfield, Russian 7.62, and the Lee Harvey Oswald Special, the Mannlicher-Carcano, are all good buys for the money (about $20). [/QUOTE] I’ll never get why people who believe that we are living in a fascist state, want the population disarmed. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811/20 "2008-08-21T20:13:31Z")
Huh. I heard about this about two weeks ago. Sadly, I agree with Argent here. I don’t _trust_ the government… why the hell do I want them all to have guns? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-plants-mole-spy-in-gun-control-organizations/460811.md?page=2)