# NRA says arm teachers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 27, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408 "2005-03-27T00:07:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/21 "2005-03-27T01:58:45Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > If it won’t, then how can there be a benefit, reduced or otherwise? > > I guess we’ll just have to wait for some couragous progressive forward-looking state (say, Texas) to give this a whirl and report the results. There are certain benefits for having a gun in school namely incapacitating someone shooting students but in my opinion the risks outweigh this benefit. Putting the gun in a lock box reduces the benefit by making it harder to get to the gun in the time of crisis. My point was that the risks of teachers carrying outweighed the benefits. On further reflection I don’t have a problem with a gun in a locked safe in a principals office but I don’t really see the benefit. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/22 "2005-03-27T02:33:22Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > Most campuses these days already have armed police officers there, ready to respond to whatever emergency happens. Just to interject one thing. **phouka** , most campuses don’t have armed police. At least not nationwide. I’ve never been to Plano. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/23 "2005-03-27T02:39:16Z")
Armed teachers have stopped school shootings in this country. As a teacher, I support guns on campus **in qualified hands.** That counts out almost every teacher I know. But there should be some available, on-site option if the shit hits the fan and some nutjob starts taking out students. I know some of my administrators are ex-military. I know there is at least one counsellor with a concealed-carry permit. I don’t want to carry in my classroom, but I would like a closer response than the Sheriffs Office 5 miles away. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/24 "2005-03-27T02:47:29Z")
[snarky response]What a great idea! The best way to reduce the damage done by guns in schools is to increase the number of guns in the schools.[/snarky response] Is this the NRA’s solution to every problem? More guns? Shootings in schools? Have we tried giving guns to the teachers? Concerned about somebody shooting you or a loved one? How many guns do you want? Toilet clogged? Have you tried shooting it? I’m no expert in this sort of thing (really I’m not 😉 ), but it sounds to me like somebody has a fetish. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/25 "2005-03-27T02:54:15Z")
[Non-Snarky Response] From [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5991337&postcount=84) post, which I linked to in [Post #7](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5991347&postcount=7) above: > [@](#): > > Armed faculty in schools does not necessarily equate to “More Bullets” and more “collateral damage.” In the comparatively few cases of armed intervention by **faculty and students** in mass shootings, the aggressors have simply given up when confronted by opposing force, most often without a shot having been fired. > > In the 1 October, 1997 shooting in Pearl Mississippi, it was Asst. Principal Joel Myrick who brought killer Luke Woodham to heel with the .45-caliber automatic pistol he kept in his truck. > > In the 17 January, 2002 shooting at the Appalachian Law School, two students, Mikael Gross and Tracy Bridges, confronted shooter Peter Odighizuwa after retrieving their handguns from their cars in the school parking lot. The bolded part is a :smack: by me; excuse me while I go clarify a my post over in IMHO. :smack: :smack: [/Non-Snarky Response] ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/26 "2005-03-27T03:09:04Z")
Don’t have a cite handy, but I believe a principal or some such grabbed a gun out of his truck and disarmed a kid in a Mississippi school shooting some years back. (Could be wrong on the state) I don’t think any of us that believe in the right to own guns are advocating having teachers running around packing heat. As was mentioned above, especially given the climate in schools today, I do believe some teachers/administrators should have access to firearms, given proper training of course. As an aside, WTF is up with this shit!!? Hell, when I was in HS in the early/mid 70’s, during hunting season, we would carry our guns in the truck, so we could go maybe pop some squirrels after school. I even remember the track coach admiring my old Mossberg pump gun out in the parking lot. Damn shame it has come to this. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/27 "2005-03-27T03:09:28Z")
In non snarky response to your quote **ExTank** The problem here is that we just don’t know. > [@](#): > > Armed faculty in schools does not **necessarily** equate to “More Bullets” and more “collateral damage.” Bolding mine. We really don’t have enough information yet to make any sort of a safe judgement on this. I’m sure we’ve all known asshole teachers. How would we feel about asshole teachers with guns? No matter how the situation is handled, someone unsavory is likely to get one. What happens then? I guess what I’m concerned about is that we would be asking an entire profession that has nothing to do with law enforcement/security to be a poorly trained security force. Unless boot camp is going to become de rigeur for the educational set, this is a lousy idea. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/28 "2005-03-27T03:11:23Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > As an aside, WTF is up with this shit!!? Hell, when I was in HS in the early/mid 70’s, during hunting season, we would carry our guns in the truck, so we could go maybe pop some squirrels after school. > > I even remember the track coach admiring my old Mossberg pump gun out in the parking lot. Damn shame it has come to this. Hell, in my school kids would bring their rifles to school during hunting season. In eighth grade someone gave a speech on making shotgun shells, with a demonstration. Can’t imagine what would happen if he tried that now. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/29 "2005-03-27T03:13:26Z")
After submission, I see ExTank mentioned the one I was thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/30 "2005-03-27T16:05:31Z")
Hey, I’ve got an idea! Let’s put collars onto every student- lockable collars that they can’t remove. Now put a small explosive charge in there- so that, upon receiving a coded signal, it blows up. The charge is small enough that it only decapitates the kid, without harming anyone around him. You may’ve seen this used in a few movies. This would be a lot more effective than guns, which conceivably could be wrestled away from the teacher, and require training to be used correctly. If a student threatens the life of another student or a teacher, someone in the office presses a button and blows the youngster’s head clean the fuck off! Problem solved, and casualties are reduced to the absolute minimum. Guns can be so inaccurate- but the explosive collar is a surgical strike. And just imagine how effective this would be as a deterrent! I know that _I_ wouldn’t think of storming the school with a shotgun, knowing that, at any moment, the principle could press The Button and I’d be painting the cafeteria arterial red! Just think how polite all the students would be. No more disrespect for authority, by gum! Sure, it’d be a bit expensive to do this, but we’ve got the technology, and really- is any price too high to pay for the safety of our schools? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/31 "2005-03-27T16:18:51Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > Don’t have a cite handy, but I believe a principal or some such grabbed a gun out of his truck and disarmed a kid in a Mississippi school shooting some years back. (Could be wrong on the state) I heard that too. He couldn’t have a gun on campus, so his car was parked about a half-mile away. I’d also heard that some students disarmed a kid who was shooting up a cafeteria. How? Because the kids knew enough about guns to tell from the sound the gun was making that the shooter had run out of ammo. If the School Resource Officer had been armed maybe none of this would have happened. It’s no different than having armed air marshals on planes. Having teachers who have been given a gun safety training course, then arming them? I have no problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/32 "2005-03-27T16:29:30Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I dunno. What would keep a meteor from hitting the school and killing everyone inside? I am not so sure that this is the same thing. It is odd that people are asking for elaboration on this subject when just a week ago, a suspect took a gun from a trained law enforcement officer in a courthouse, killed multiple subjects and fled the scene. [Cite](http://www.komotv.com/news/mnewsaction.asp?ID=35696) When my husband had to go through weapons training, he had to be sprayed in the face with mace and then wrestle with an individual for 3 minutes who was trying to get his firearm. This was designed because, in the field, there was the possibility that you could try and use mace, some would effect you and then a subject would come after you and try and get your weapon. It is an EXTREMELY valid concern. The placing of weapons in schools, in the hands of non-professionals, where you have emotionally distraught children who can be put in explosive situations is a bad idea… in the extreme. Paying for trained police officers, now let’s make that argument in another thread, but comparing the likelihood of a weapon being taken from an individual and used against them to a meteor hitting a school is way off the mark. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/33 "2005-03-27T16:30:28Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > It’s no different than having armed air marshals on planes. Having teachers who have been given a gun safety training course, then arming them? I have no problem with that. Actually it would be very different from having air marshals. A gun safety course is quite a bit different from police training. How much training do you want to put teachers through? ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/34 "2005-03-27T16:35:52Z")
> [@](#): > > If the School Resource Officer had been armed maybe none of this would have happened. It’s no different than having armed air marshals on planes. Having teachers who have been given a gun safety training course, then arming them? I have no problem with that. You’re right, that’s also a crazy idea… ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/35 "2005-03-27T17:01:34Z")
My father carried a .22 rifle to school every day when he was a child… leaned it in the corner by the door while class was in session. Today, though, it’s probably a bad idea to have guns in the classroom. Maybe one in the Principal’s office might not be a bad idea, just in case corporal punishment wasn’t sufficient (you’d probably only have to make one example to get the rest of the kids to straighten up and fly right!) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/36 "2005-03-27T20:49:15Z")
I think were forgetting how quickly these things happen too. When a kid like the one in Red Lake wants to go on a killing spree and then kill himself, it happens in minutes and often the murderer has already killed himself. Getting a teacher, a guard, or a “response team” would likely do no good in these situations unless there was a hostage situation going on. And if that were the case, the police would likely be on there way anyway. I say arm the schools with a gas solution that when activated, sets off an alarm and knocks everyone out quickly (and safely). (likelihood of something like this?) ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/37 "2005-03-27T20:54:03Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > I say arm the schools with a gas solution that when activated, sets off an alarm and knocks everyone out quickly (and safely). (likelihood of something like this?) Interesting idea, if practical… but don’t forget when they tried to knock out the terrorists in Moscow and killed a bunch of the hostages. It wouldn’t be good to wipe out half the students with gas. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/38 "2005-03-27T21:09:38Z")
Yea crazy purple knockout gas doesn’t work like it does in the movies. The gas needed to incapacitate Bruno the 250 pound Offensive tackle will most likely kill Lisa the 90 pound cheerleader. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/39 "2005-03-27T21:12:35Z")
Or…stay with me here…we could actually budget the school system with enough money to hire enough _competent_,\* trained\* counselling staff who can _recognize_ problems before they happen and help kids _before_ they go postal. Nah. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408/40 "2005-03-27T21:17:45Z")
Or we could try to figure out just what the hell is wrong with our society that is causing these sorts of things to happen these days, and try to fix that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-says-arm-teachers/296408.md?page=3)