# NRA to Sue Arizona over Destroying Buyback Guns **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 9, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623 "2013-01-09T13:17:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/361 "2013-01-11T15:18:44Z")
What you’re really afraid of is that more people are realizing that their guns don’t make them safer and are getting rid of them. It’s the notion that they think a mere $20 card is worth more than something you hold so precious that makes your heads explode. Every gun turned in represents one less person who will be likely to vote for the NRA’s satanic agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/362 "2013-01-11T15:23:31Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What you’re really afraid of is that more people are realizing that their guns don’t make them safer and are getting rid of them. Not true Bob. > **[Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993](https://news.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self-Reported-Gun-Ownership-Highest-1993.aspx)** > > Forty-seven percent of American adults currently report that they have a gun in their home or elsewhere on their property. This is up from 41% a year ago and is the highest Gallup has recorded since 1993. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/363 "2013-01-11T15:24:14Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Let me get this straight. You think that the only reason that guns exist and that someone would own a gun is because they are “evil death dealing scary things”. > > Do I have that right? Certainly. Because “evil death dealing scary thing” is just a hyperbolic phrase for “weapon.” Guns are weapons. They remain weapons whether you use them for war, murder, hunting, or home-defense. There would be no guns in the world, they never would have been invented, if their only use was target-competition. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/364 "2013-01-11T15:30:42Z")
People forget about their ability to start track events. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/365 "2013-01-11T16:06:23Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Not true Bob. > > [Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993](http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self-Reported-Gun-Ownership-Highest-1993.aspx) > > 🙂 That’s over a year old poll, done by Gallup, who were nearly as bad as Ramussen in the 2012 election. The Gallup name isn’t what it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/366 "2013-01-11T16:14:51Z")
I don’t think that really matters. It shows a (modest) upward trend in gun ownership relative to Gallup’s _own previous polls_. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/367 "2013-01-11T16:22:26Z")
And, after the last election, we know how precise their polls are… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/368 "2013-01-11T16:31:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t think that really matters. It shows a (modest) upward trend in gun ownership relative to Gallup’s _own previous polls_. There are two worlds: pre-Newtown and post-Newtown. This was a pivot point in history just as 9/11 was. ---
**Author:** ![random6x7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8baadc/32.png) [@random6x7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/random6x7)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/369 "2013-01-11T16:45:58Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > lol, I think that means “no, but I prefer not to admit being inconsistent.” No, it was said sarcastically. Sorry, that’s a personal verbal tic that doesn’t come across well in writing. Frankly, if Planned Parenthood was doing so well that they felt the need to file frivolous lawsuits like that, I’d assume they didn’t need my money anymore, and I’d be pissed that they hadn’t decided to drop prices even more or open more centers in areas without good, cheap gynecological services instead. Again, it’s not forcing anyone to give up their birth control, except possibly those in dire poverty, which I’ve already mentioned. And slippery slope arguments are dumb. If this is really what passes for dire attacks against your rights, I’d say your side has either already won or is so paranoid it’s not even worth arguing with you. > [@brazil84](#): > > Keep in mind that it’s not just things people “no longer need.” It’s anything people prefer to trade for money. Granted. And, if giving it up means seriously screwing with someone’s basic life needs, then there should be a way to help those. The gun equivalent, I’d think, would be someone who uses their gun to keep their larder filled. If those people are, out of desperation, participating in buyback programs, then they need more help than having to sell their guns at the pawn shop instead of the police department. This lawsuit doesn’t help them. Otherwise, why do you care what people do with their guns, if they won’t starve without them? I guarantee you that I’m on my computer far more often than most gunowners use their guns, and my computer is more useful to me in more areas of my life than a gun is, but if I had to sell it to pay the bills, it’s not some grand destruction of my constitutional rights. > [@brazil84](#): > > Why would public officials need to be involved? My local Safeway, turns out, will take prescription drugs to properly dispose of them. They also charge for the service and do not advertise it well. When it comes to services that are in the public good, that aren’t profitable for private business, and that aren’t adequately covered by charities, I tend to look for the government to fill in the gaps. That’s what makes me a liberal. I believe that government is basically another vehicle for people to come together and get shit done. It has its strengths and weaknesses, and it’s as prone to corruption as any other large conglomerate, but it is also a useful tool. I honestly don’t understand what the problem is here unless you are imbuing guns with some special meaning. Do you have a problem with bulk trash pick-up days? Other people can use the furniture and stuff; I furnished my college apartment that way. What about disposal services for batteries and electronic goods? Municipal recycling? Libraries have to trash a lot of books because they don’t have room to store them while they are sold and no one wants to take them; are you upset about that? What is so special about guns that the idea of the government running disposal services for them is so scary? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/370 "2013-01-11T16:46:51Z")
That’s possible, but I suspect any large scale dumping of household guns is offset by people rushing out to buy them because of “gun grab” fearmongering. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/371 "2013-01-11T16:53:42Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What you’re really afraid of is that more people are realizing that their guns don’t make them safer and are getting rid of them. > [@Kable](#): > > Not true Bob. > > [Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993](http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self-Reported-Gun-Ownership-Highest-1993.aspx) > > 🙂 > [@BobLibDem](#): > > That’s over a year old poll, done by Gallup, who were nearly as bad as Ramussen in the 2012 election. The Gallup name isn’t what it used to be. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > There are two worlds: pre-Newtown and post-Newtown. This was a pivot point in history just as 9/11 was. OK. So where’s your evidence of the truth of your claim that more people are realizing that their guns don’t make them safer and are getting rid of them? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/372 "2013-01-11T16:53:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Certainly. Because “evil death dealing scary thing” is just a hyperbolic phrase for “weapon.” Guns are weapons. So an over under shotgun that is perfectly balanced for skeet and trap shooting and never will be used for anything other than shooting clay pigeons at the gun club has no purpose other than dealing death and being a weapon? You are a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/373 "2013-01-11T16:57:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. So where’s your evidence of the truth of your claim that more people are realizing that their guns don’t make them safer and are getting rid of them? Yes. In fact, gun sales are soaring plus the NRA membership is rapidly rising in response to the recent events. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/374 "2013-01-11T17:04:30Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Yes. In fact, gun sales are soaring plus the NRA membership is rapidly rising in response to the recent events. My evidence is the overwhelming turnout at gun surrender events. Plus we’re talking about gun control. It was one of the third rails of politics, more and more politicians and pundits like Joe Scarborough are willing to consider reasonable controls. Why are gun sales and NRA memberships so brisk? It’s just the same people who always owned guns buying more and more of them falling for the National Redneck Association sales pitches. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/375 "2013-01-11T17:05:57Z")
The percentage of households with guns has [declined since 1973](http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/31/politics/gun-ownership-declining/index.html): > [@](#): > > The number of households owning guns has declined from almost 50% in 1973 to just over 32% in 2010, according to a 2011 study produced by The University of Chicago’s National Opinion Research Center. The number of gun owners has gone down almost 10% over the same period, the report found So if a shrinking percentage of households are stockpiling a larger number of guns, it does not mean gun ownership is becoming more popular. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/376 "2013-01-11T17:06:49Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > My evidence is the overwhelming turnout at gun surrender events. Plus we’re talking about gun control. It was one of the third rails of politics, more and more politicians and pundits like Joe Scarborough are willing to consider reasonable controls. > > Why are gun sales and NRA memberships so brisk? It’s just the same people who always owned guns buying more and more of them falling for the National Redneck Association sales pitches. Perhaps you forgot to include the link. You know: to the studies, surveys, or other evidence that supports these assertions you’re making. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/377 "2013-01-11T17:13:40Z")
> [@random6x7](#): > > No, it was said sarcastically. Ok, so you meant “no.” Well that kinda proves my point. > [@](#): > > Frankly, if Planned Parenthood was doing so well that they felt the need to file frivolous lawsuits like that, In this case the proposed lawsuit would not be frivolous. Anyway, it seems like you concede that if Planned Parenthood behaved as described earlier, you would not be outraged. Perhaps you might invent some reason to pretend you are outraged so you would not look inconsistent. > [@](#): > > And slippery slope arguments are dumb. Why? Do you deny that a lot of major changes to law and policy started out small and grew from there? > [@](#): > > I tend to look for the government to fill in the gaps. That’s what makes me a liberal. So let’s see if I have this straight: 1. You are a liberal. 2. Therefore it’s okay for the government to get involved. 3. Therefore the government needs to be involved. 4. But that’s okay, because you are a liberal. Does that pretty much sum up your position? > [@](#): > > I honestly don’t understand what the problem is here unless you are imbuing guns with some special meaning. And in fact I do. First of all, guns involve an important moral and legal right. Second, firearm ownership is intensely political and there are a lot of forces directed towards ending private legal ownership of firearms in the United States. That’s why I brought up the Planned Parenthood analogy, since I know that a lot of people value abortion rights just like I value gun rights. If the local police were involved in distributing gift cards to discourage girls from getting abortions, somehow I doubt you would say “obviously the police need to be involved in this, so there’s no problem.” > [@](#): > > What is so special about guns that the idea of the government running disposal services for them is so scary? The same thing that is special to liberals about abortion rights. It represents a right and there are forces directed towards banning it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/378 "2013-01-11T17:23:40Z")
On that point, at least, he is correct. There won’t be any girls turning in stolen abortions at your hypothetical womb buyback. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/379 "2013-01-11T17:25:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Can you explain the mechanism the NRA is using to force people to buy guns? > > Have you bought yours yet? Is there some reason it failed to work on you? No > [@brazil84](#): > > Thank you for answering my question. I am extremely skeptical of your claim. Please show me proof that the NRA is forcing everyone to buy guns. No (by the way, thanks for showing me a way to make a point without explanation or context. since you only wanted a yes or no answer, and feel that’s sufficient, then that’s all you get unless you actually realize there are additional points aside from a yes or no answer. and this explanation doesn’t count because its in parentheses) > [@brazil84](#): > > In this case the proposed lawsuit would not be frivolous. Anyway, it seems like you concede that if Planned Parenthood behaved as described earlier, you would not be outraged. Perhaps you might invent some reason to pretend you are outraged so you would not look inconsistent. No > [@brazil84](#): > > Why? Do you deny that a lot of major changes to law and policy started out small and grew from there? Yes > [@brazil84](#): > > So let’s see if I have this straight: > > 1. You are a liberal. > > 2. Therefore it’s okay for the government to get involved. > > 3. Therefore the government needs to be involved. > > 4. But that’s okay, because you are a liberal. > > Does that pretty much sum up your position? No > [@brazil84](#): > > And in fact I do. Ass > [@brazil84](#): > > First of all, guns involve an important moral and legal right. Sometimes > [@brazil84](#): > > Second, firearm ownership is intensely political and there are a lot of forces directed towards ending private legal ownership of firearms in the United States. Idiot > [@brazil84](#): > > That’s why I brought up the Planned Parenthood analogy, since I know that a lot of people value abortion rights just like I value gun rights. No > [@brazil84](#): > > If the local police were involved in distributing gift cards to discourage girls from getting abortions, somehow I doubt you would say “obviously the police need to be involved in this, so there’s no problem.” Maybe > [@brazil84](#): > > The same thing that is special to liberals about abortion rights. It represents a right and there are forces directed towards banning it. Never ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/380 "2013-01-11T17:27:34Z")
I agree it’s fair to say that to a certain extent, guns are sui generis, and the analogies to abortions, labor protests, and Occupy movements do not completely capture the dynamic in play when the right being exercised is found in the Second Amendment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623.md?page=20)