# NRA to Sue Arizona over Destroying Buyback Guns **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 9, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623 "2013-01-09T13:17:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/101 "2013-01-09T17:17:07Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > However you wouldn’t if the party you are selling the gun to is the government, and the laws of that state say that guns turned in must be sold rather than melted down. Fair nuff > [@](#): > > Let me ask you a question: Why does the person selling/turning in the gun care what happens to it? They’ve handed it in. Whether it gets melted down or sold to a responsible owner, why would the person care? I care if I turned in/sold the gun to someone who told me they would be melting it down, and then, once they secured possession decided to sell it on the open market. It’s misrepresentation. Just as if I gave something of value to a charity for a particular purpose based on the agreement of the people running the charity, then they decide to change the plan once they have possession of my gift. If they’re going to sell it, there should be a big banner saying “Turn in your gun for a $20 gift card so we can sell it at auction” Oh, and the folks donating the money also get told that their funding the purchase of guns for resale. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/102 "2013-01-09T17:31:53Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Police property I think is taxpayer property. I’m sure they have regulations to keep them from wasting taxpayer property. So we’re back to **Jack Batty** ’s question – when and where is the weed action, dude? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/103 "2013-01-09T17:37:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, now I’ve read the law – SB 1108, signed into law by Governor Jan Brewer, may inform some of the discussion here. The law changes the procedure police must follow for confiscated guns. Prior to the passage of SB1108, police departments were permitted to destroy a firearm upon the conviction of the person who had used that firearm in commission of a felony. > > Now, police departments must sell such confiscated guns back to the public, as long as they are legal for sale. > > This doesn’t directly address the surrendered/donated gun issue, but I suspect the NRA wants to argue that the intent of the legislature was to ensure that police must sell, and not destroy, valuable firearms. They haven’t been able to find that in any of the emanations from the penumbrae of the law, so now they’re looking into the penumbrae of the emanations. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/104 "2013-01-09T17:44:21Z")
Or, for you Aussies, [the vibe of the thing.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJuXIq7OazQ)😉 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/105 "2013-01-09T17:44:51Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It hinges on whether the guns were “abandoned” or “sold”. Tell us – when Bill Clinton came up with “it depends on what the meaning of ‘is’ is”, did you laugh at him or were you impressed with his cleverness? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/106 "2013-01-09T18:19:28Z")
Gun manufacturers have been funding the NRA, for years. It will be pretty amusing if the NRA comes close to winning and the manufacturers defund the NRA on the grounds that they are reducing demand for firearms by recirculating guns that would have otherwise needed to be replaced. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/107 "2013-01-09T18:21:58Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > If they’re going to sell it, there should be a big banner saying “Turn in your gun for a $20 gift card so we can sell it at auction” Oh, and the folks donating the money also get told that their funding the purchase of guns for resale. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/108 "2013-01-09T18:23:28Z")
I found that a rather interesting conflict also. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/109 "2013-01-09T18:25:11Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Tell us – when Bill Clinton came up with “it depends on what the meaning of ‘is’ is”, did you laugh at him or were you impressed with his cleverness? Both. I was also frustrated by the incompetence of the person who asked him the sloppy question that allowed him to weasel that answer in the first place. The law has meaning. If it says the government can’t melt down the guns if they were turned in then they shouldn’t be. If it says that and we disagree with it we should change the law. But if we disagree with it or even consider it silly we can’t just ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/110 "2013-01-09T18:44:46Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Both. I was also frustrated by the incompetence of the person who asked him the sloppy question that allowed him to weasel that answer in the first place. > > The law has meaning. If it says the government can’t melt down the guns if they were turned in then they shouldn’t be. If it says that and we disagree with it we should change the law. But if we disagree with it or even consider it silly we can’t just ignore it. The law certainly _does_ have meaning, and the law says nothing about guns that are purchased. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/111 "2013-01-09T19:01:44Z")
It sounds like the NRA’s scheme is to try to get dangerous guns at a discount rate ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/112 "2013-01-09T19:37:36Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > This is turning into a schoolyard argument “I know I am, but what are you?” > You’re the one arguing that the police might be required to sell the weapons. You brought it up in the first place. The onus is on you to support that, not on me to discredit it. And it’s still an argument even if you don’t call it that. This. You do know people can go back to the very start of a thread and see who said what first, right? I mean, it’s right here in black and white that you brought up this line of reasoning initially and have continued to pursue it. On the Dope, that means the onus is on you to back up your contentions with a cite. Not turn around and do the “I’m rubber and your glue!” schtick by demanding the other parties give cites to your queries instead. > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Defensive Gun Use stats are bullshit, because they are self-reported. Any pants-pissy pussy who whips out his gun to use the butt of it point the produce section to a couple of sketchy looking characters can report a “Defensive Gun Use,” because if he has a gun – it’s for defense. Ipso facto, abracadabra, yabba-dabba-doo. Simple as that. I also wondered about this. Hell, if I remember correctly, we even had a poster here that illustrated this point. Something about not believing some guy at Home Depot was asking for legitimate directions in the parking lot, so he talked him out of whatever nefarious crime he was about to perpetrate by vaguely brandishing his gun at him. Yep. I bet that guy has 50 ‘defensive’ gun uses a year, easily. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/113 "2013-01-09T19:47:28Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Hell, if I remember correctly, we even had a poster here that illustrated this point. Something about not believing some guy at Home Depot was asking for legitimate directions in the parking lot, so he talked him out of whatever nefarious crime he was about to perpetrate by vaguely brandishing his gun at him. Gee. That does sound familiar, now that you mention it. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/114 "2013-01-09T20:04:03Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Gee. That does sound familiar, now that you mention it. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14829753&postcount=115](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14829753&postcount=115) ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/115 "2013-01-09T20:07:34Z")
Well. Shut my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/116 "2013-01-09T20:17:03Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Well. Shut my mouth. I was waving my gun just as you posted that, therefore it counts. Right? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/117 "2013-01-09T20:18:33Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14829753&postcount=115](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14829753&postcount=115) What a fuckwad. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/118 "2013-01-09T20:33:45Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Neither do I. I can think of 2 arguments: First, the NRA may feel that it’s a better use of public resources for the authorities to re-sell the guns to responsible owners. Second, the NRA may be worried about the slippery slope. The next step might be to use public funds to purchase the guns. Then to offer more and more carrots and sticks to ban guns through the back door. By analogy, imagine if the local police department started handing out $100 gift cards to girls who went through with their pregnancies instead of having abortions. Even if the gift cards were privately donated, Planned Parenthood would understandably be concerned about the precedent of the government getting involved in discouraging abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/119 "2013-01-09T20:38:22Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I can think of 2 arguments: > > First, the NRA may feel that it’s a better use of public resources for the authorities to re-sell the guns to responsible owners. Okay, but that doesn’t explain why they are filing a lawsuit over it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623/120 "2013-01-09T20:44:04Z")
That"slippery slope" crap rears its retarded head yet again, I see. Any action, any regulation, any proposal that doesn’t actively promote the agenda of the NRA and the weapons manufacturers is met with some variation of, “It seems reasonable on the surface, but in reality it is just the first step on a slippery slope to the banning of all guns.” All rules regulations and laws, no matter how innocuous, can be dismissed without discussion using this argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nra-to-sue-arizona-over-destroying-buyback-guns/646623.md?page=7)