# NSA considering an amnesty for Edward Snowden ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 15, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401 "2013-12-15T19:02:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/1 "2013-12-15T19:02:09Z")
A couple of things: [ol] [li]Snowden hasn’t been indicted on any charges[/li][li]This amnesty is being mooted by the guy who is apparently the top candidate for the soon-to-be vacant job of (civilian) Deputy Director of the NSA - so it’s basically the NSA unofficially running an idea up the flag pole[/li][/ol] It seems to me _the state_ has to cut its losses on this; you have a guy who pretty much the entire non-US world sees as a hero hold up in Russia - Russia, for goodness sake - unable to return to the land of the free for fear of prosecution. At the same time, it looks like the President will be making changes based on Snowden’s steady trickle of disclosures, of which we’re about 1% done: effectively, Snowden is more than informing Presidential policy at this point. It seems what Snowden has done is being implicitly endorsed by the Head of State? Or not - how do you read this slightly surreal situation? > [@](#): > > National Security Agency officials are considering a controversial amnesty that would return Edward Snowden to the United States, in exchange for the extensive document trove the whistleblower took from the agency. > **[NSA officials consider Edward Snowden amnesty in return for documents](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/15/nsa-edward-snowden-amnesty-documents)** > > Key official tells CBS 'it's worth having a conversation' though State Department and other key figures oppose deal ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/2 "2013-12-15T19:04:38Z")
Ah, I should also have added: is the NSA actually in a position to offer amnesty of its own volition? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/3 "2013-12-15T19:10:42Z")
No, of course not. This is a decision that obviously only the President could make, and only a fool would offer Snowden amnesty because: 1) it will serve as a further encouragement for people to break the law; 2) it is fully inconsistent with the well-justified prosecution of Pvt. Manning; and 3) there is zero assurance that Snowden returning some electronic media will actually contain the damage from his spying. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/4 "2013-12-15T19:13:41Z")
So why is this very senior NSA guy, in line for a big promotion, mooting it? Could we possibly have missed something … ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/5 "2013-12-15T19:19:03Z")
Your own cite shows your thread title is incorrect. It’s one guy (albeit highly placed) at the NSA, not “the NSA”: > [@](#): > > The NSA official in charge of assessing the alleged damage caused by Snowden’s leaks, Richard Ledgett, told CBS News an amnesty still remains controversial within the agency ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/6 "2013-12-15T19:25:58Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > It seems what Snowden has done is being implicitly endorsed by the Head of State? Or not - how do you read this slightly surreal situation? It does? Again, from your cite: > [@](#): > > On Sunday, the State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf said that Ledgett was stating a “personal view”. > > “Our position has not changed,” Harf said. “Mr Snowden is facing very serious charges and should return to the United States to face them.” You’ve got one guy floating this idea and any number of people who actually can make the decision saying “no”. This is partly sensationalist journalism and partly your reading waaaaay too much into the article. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/7 "2013-12-15T19:26:56Z")
And if you read a little further this appears: > [@](#): > > **The NSA official in charge of assessing the alleged damage** caused by Snowden’s leaks, Richard Ledgett, told CBS News an amnesty still remains controversial within the agency, which has spent the past six months defending itself against a global outcry and legislative and executive proposals to restrain its broad surveillance activities. > > “My personal view is, yes, it’s worth having a conversation about,” Ledgett, **who is under consideration to become the agency’s top civilian** , said in an interview slated to air Sunday evening on 60 Minutes. > [@](#): > > The NSA’s director, General Keith Alexander, told CBS that granting Snowden amnesty would reward the leaks and potentially incentivize future ones. But Alexander is retiring in the spring, joining his civilian deputy John C Inglis, and Ledgett is rumored to be a top candidate to replace Inglis. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/8 "2013-12-15T19:37:37Z")
There is a huge difference between one senior policy maker in government thinking about proposals that neither he nor his agency has any power to effectuate, and the same matter being formally proposed by the agency for consideration by the whole government. Once again, typical crappy Guardian reporting… no, scratch that: I maintain that most British newspapers are ridiculously poor at accurate reporting, since accuracy is constantly being traded off for attention-grabbing headlines. Thank god for the British press, as they make American journalists look thoughtful, restrained, and statesman-like. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/9 "2013-12-15T19:49:21Z")
It’s a direct quote from the NSA man appearing on 60 Minutes later tonight! 😃 Talk about blaming the messenger … ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/10 "2013-12-15T19:50:28Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > It’s a direct quote from the NSA man appearing on 60 Minutes later tonight! 😃 > > Talk about blaming the messenger … It’s still selective reporting. Why not make the headline: “State Department Reaffirms the US’s Stance on Snowdon”? ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/11 "2013-12-15T20:04:34Z")
Because we know that part already 🙂 ‘news’ is the bit we don’t yet know. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/12 "2013-12-15T20:06:07Z")
“and Ledgett is rumored to be a top candidate to replace Inglis.” After this speech I think it is very likely Ledgett is no longer a candidate to replace anyone. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/13 "2013-12-15T20:24:32Z")
That’s kind of the point: why would someone so senior within the NSA go on 60 Minutes and say this … ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/14 "2013-12-15T22:22:50Z")
To be blunt about it, what he did is currently not a death penalty crime - so there should be no country not willing to let us extradite him. [One of the main reasons not to extradite is generally being dragged back to the US to be put to death.] Because there really can not be an innocent plea - he swiped and released the info, he admits he did it, it happened, nobody else can be shoved in as the person who really did it. Just slap his ass in a plane in handcuffs and let us get over it.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/15 "2013-12-15T23:53:28Z")
eh? We’re curently in a surreal world where some senior official with the NSA is talking about an annesty for someone not charged with any crime and offering an amnesty he isn’t in a position to offer. Meanwhile, the President appoints a committee to address the concerns raised by the enemy of the state and while Mr/iss Manning serves 35 years for doing about the same. So, all good. It’s just a shame Peter Sellers died. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/16 "2013-12-16T00:07:57Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > That’s kind of the point: why would someone so senior within the NSA go on 60 Minutes and say this … Two possible answers: 1. He’s off the reservation and will be slapped down. People lose message discipline all the time. 2. It’s a trial balloon. As the revelations about the NSA grow, Snowden is becoming somewhat of a hero around the globe. For bad or good, his Q-rating is enormously positive overseas and with some segments of the US population. If we assume that NOTHING is going to prevent the rest of the info from coming out, then it might be best to try to make a positive spin by working with Snowden somehow. If it receives positive reviews it goes from ‘one guy’ saying it to ‘the government is now willing to’. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/17 "2013-12-16T00:29:19Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > We’re curently in a surreal world where some senior official with the NSA is talking about an annesty for someone not charged with any crime. He’s been charged with several crimes. > [@wikipedia](#): > > On 14 June 2013, United States federal prosecutors charged Snowden with theft of government property, unauthorized communication of national defense information and “willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person” But yea, no way in hell they’d offer him amnesty. Even in the unlikely event the gov’t decided they needed to cut a deal to prevent further disclosures, they’d offer a plea deal that would at least leave intact the principle that people violating security clearances will be prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/18 "2013-12-16T00:32:08Z")
I should have said ‘indicted’. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/19 "2013-12-16T01:00:36Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > To be blunt about it, what he did is currently not a death penalty crime - so there should be no country not willing to let us extradite him. [One of the main reasons not to extradite is generally being dragged back to the US to be put to death.] > > Because there really can not be an innocent plea - he swiped and released the info, he admits he did it, it happened, nobody else can be shoved in as the person who really did it. Just slap his ass in a plane in handcuffs and let us get over it.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: indeed. You seem to not have much of a clue. First of all America would not extradite but would ask for extradition > [@](#): > > Extradite: To give up or deliver (a fugitive, for example) to the legal jurisdiction of another government or authority. Second, there is no extradition treaty with Russia so Russia would be under no obligation at all. Third, even if there were an extradition treaty with Russia it would almost certainly not include political crimes. Fourth, even if by some chance the treaty included the crime being charged the courts of the country would have to approve extradition. Fifth, even if the courts approved it then the executive has the last word to approve or deny. Sixth, what would be the odds that America would extradite to Russia or to China someone who had done the same thing thing to one of those countries? Exactly, zero chance. They would be hailed as heroes. Do you understand it a bit better now? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401/20 "2013-12-16T02:21:49Z")
There are also a number of people Russia wanted the U.S. to extradite to them–but the U.S. refused. See for example: 3 Extradition Cases That Help Explain U.S.-Russia Relations > **[3 Extradition Cases That Help Explain U.S.-Russia Relations](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/08/07/209846990/3-extradition-cases-that-help-explain-u-s-russia-relations)** > > U.S.-Russian relations suffered a blow when President Obama pulled out of a planned bilateral meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin over the Edward Snowden situation. But the two countries have been here before. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-considering-an-amnesty-for-edward-snowden/676401.md?page=2)