# NSA pervs listen to steamy phone calls by Americans abroad **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2008, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-pervs-listen-to-steamy-phone-calls-by-americans-abroad/467272 "2008-10-10T02:18:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-pervs-listen-to-steamy-phone-calls-by-americans-abroad/467272/21 "2008-10-10T15:39:11Z")
> [@Headrush042](#): > > Is that supported by facts? Or is it simply phrasing meant to provoke outrage? Welllll … not being the author of the story, how the fuck would I know? However, it’s not an opinion piece; one might assume it’s a reporting of facts or at least statements that have been presented to the reporter as facts. I was just offering it as a cite. I can’t even begin to adress your nit-picks. On the surface it all looks pretty squirrelly to me. My initial reaction is not the minutia but that through the enhanced powers of this “terrorist surveillance program” we now know that Jim-Bob “Silo” McCoy likes his sphincter tickled when Lurlene is going down on him. There has been a breach here, and it seems a direct result of the current administrations not really giving a shit if privacy rights are trampled on. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-pervs-listen-to-steamy-phone-calls-by-americans-abroad/467272/22 "2008-10-10T15:46:42Z")
> [@Headrush042](#): > > Still, can anybody without a security clearance truly hold an informed opinion about the activities of this nation’s various secret agencies? We all know where ultimate policy is formulated, so I suppose the only answer is to vet your candidates carefully before voting on 4 Nov 😛 Answer: Hell no, which is why having various security agencies is a bad, bad thing- much more difficult to keep an eye on 26 (than on one or two) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-pervs-listen-to-steamy-phone-calls-by-americans-abroad/467272/23 "2008-10-10T16:00:31Z")
The logic is simple. On the off chance that you might possibly detect someone saying something wrong, you wiretap everybody all the time. Privacy rights do not exist any more. You belong to big brother. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-pervs-listen-to-steamy-phone-calls-by-americans-abroad/467272/24 "2008-10-10T16:15:36Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > There has been a breach here, and it seems a direct result of the current administrations not really giving a shit if privacy rights are trampled on. Unfortunately, those aren’t the _only_ rights they’re trampling on. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-pervs-listen-to-steamy-phone-calls-by-americans-abroad/467272/25 "2008-10-10T17:48:17Z")
Some of you who have questions about this story should read the original ABC News report:[Exclusive: Inside Account of U.S. Eavesdropping on Americans - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=5987804&page=1) > [@](#): > > “These were just really everyday, average, ordinary Americans who happened to be in the Middle East, in our area of intercept and happened to be making these phone calls on satellite phones,” said Adrienne Kinne, a 31-year old US Army Reserves Arab linguist assigned to a special military program at the NSA’s Back Hall at Fort Gordon from November 2001 to 2003. > [@](#): > > NSA awarded Adrienne Kinne a NSA Joint Service Achievement Medal in 2003 at the same time she says she was listening to hundreds of private conversations between Americans, including many from the International Red Cross and Doctors without Borders. > > “We knew they were working for these aid organizations,” Kinne told ABC News. “They were identified in our systems as ‘belongs to the International Red Cross’ and all these other organizations. And yet, instead of blocking these phone numbers we continued to collect on them,” she told ABC News. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-pervs-listen-to-steamy-phone-calls-by-americans-abroad/467272/26 "2008-10-10T18:05:14Z")
Doctors Without Borders? Are you\* shitting \*me! OK, now I’m fucking steamed! These are guys who could just stay where they are and practice their hard-won professions in safety and ease, but instead subject themselves to hardship and danger to bring comfort to the afflicted and the (otherwise) hopeless. In my book of fantasies, the entry after “Win the lottery” is “give a metric buttload of money to Doctors Without Borders”. God_dammit_! Trying to make it real compared to what! ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-pervs-listen-to-steamy-phone-calls-by-americans-abroad/467272/27 "2008-10-10T18:20:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Doctors Without Borders? Are you\* shitting \*me! Don’t you mean _Medecins Sans Frontiers_? They’re nothing but a bunch of America-hating Frenchies who hate America! Of course we need to tap their communication so they don’t their America-hating, socialized medicinal frog terrorism to the Homeland! I don’t want any French Internationalist Doctors, I want Freedom Doctors! Which, of course, brings me to the real question: **elucidator** , why do you hate America so much? ---
**Author:** ![Headrush042](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Headrush042](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Headrush042)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-pervs-listen-to-steamy-phone-calls-by-americans-abroad/467272/28 "2008-10-10T18:26:31Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Welllll … not being the author of the story, how the fuck would I know? Fair enough; it was a general question that struck me as I read the article – I didn’t really expect you to answer it. > [@](#): > > I can’t even begin to adress your nit-picks. On the surface it all looks pretty squirrelly to me. I disagree that it’s nitpicky. The answers to those questions makes a huge difference (to me, at least) as to whether or not the NSA is abusing its wiretap powers. To be sure, that one operator who passed lurid recordings around the office is in violation of policy. > [@](#): > > My initial reaction is not the minutia but that through the enhanced powers of this “terrorist surveillance program” we now know that Jim-Bob “Silo” McCoy likes his sphincter tickled when Lurlene is going down on him. But we’re not supposed to, even with the enhanced powers of this program. I suppose I’m more concerned with what they’re doing with my conversations once they collect them, rather than the fact that they’re being collected at all. Since I doubt the terrorists and their collaborators have published a phone book that’s easily accessible by US Intel, then they have to cast their net wide if they expect to collect any actionable intelligence at all. Unfortunately, they can’t know the content of a phone call until they’ve actually collected it and listened to it. Should they just scrap indiscriminate wiretapping altogether, despite the successes they’ve had with it? (Serious question, not being snarky) What would some alternatives be? > [@](#): > > There has been a breach here, and it seems a direct result of the current administrations not really giving a shit if privacy rights are trampled on. I agree there’s been a breach, but until they investigate further and publish more information, I can’t really say if it’s a failure of the administration or if this is an isolated anomaly enabled by shoddy oversight and management. > [@](#): > > in our area of intercept and happened to be making these phone calls on satellite phones This is not to defend the practice, but to be snarky: I find the idea of expecting privacy on a satellite phone to be pretty laughable, myself (or even a cellphone for that matter). ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-pervs-listen-to-steamy-phone-calls-by-americans-abroad/467272/29 "2008-10-10T18:30:24Z")
> [@Headrush042](#): > > To be sure, that one operator who passed lurid recordings around the office is in violation of policy. And, allegedly, others in his office. We have only his word on that, but I would think if it had just been him he wouldn’t be talking about it. It takes at least two people to “pass something around the office” anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Headrush042](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Headrush042](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Headrush042)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-pervs-listen-to-steamy-phone-calls-by-americans-abroad/467272/30 "2008-10-10T18:34:31Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > And, allegedly, others in his office. We have only his word on that, but I would think if it had just been him he wouldn’t be talking about it. It takes at least two people to “pass something around the office” anyway. Well, yeah, I expected that to be implied. I’m not expressing myself very well :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-pervs-listen-to-steamy-phone-calls-by-americans-abroad/467272/31 "2008-10-10T20:47:02Z")
(Hey, look – I can post again! I knew being a cheapskate would pay off eventually.) I could have told you this would happen. When I worked in a Kinko’s, whenever a young woman would bring in her lingerie shots for copies (either for her boyfriend or her modeling portfolio), the whole store would come around to check them out. This is the problem with wide, unregulated government monitoring of private communications – the monitors being people, they’re going to act in just this way. It’s only a matter of time before someone tapes one of these things and puts it up on YouTube. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-pervs-listen-to-steamy-phone-calls-by-americans-abroad/467272/32 "2008-10-10T21:09:38Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > (Hey, look – I can post again! I knew being a cheapskate would pay off eventually.) > > I could have told you this would happen. When I worked in a Kinko’s, whenever a young woman would bring in her lingerie shots for copies (either for her boyfriend or her modeling portfolio), the whole store would come around to check them out. We used to do the same thing at Eckerd whenever the photo lab got something juicy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nsa-pervs-listen-to-steamy-phone-calls-by-americans-abroad/467272.md?page=1)