# Nuclear Attack Questions
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [March 15, 2005, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613 "2005-03-15T09:25:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@NathanForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NathanForce)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/1 "2005-03-15T09:25:18Z")
1. Assuming the United States was attacked by a missle launched nuclear warhead (ICBM) what would the average citizen in the targeted city see as the missle approached? In other words, is it possible to see the missle before it arrives?
2. What is the best method of escape in case of this grave situation? (car, boat, foot, plane) I’ve always told my friends I would fight to the very end to escape if this happened. Assume 30 mins warning (news reports, not visual)
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### Author:  [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/2 "2005-03-15T09:35:00Z")
ICBMs are what could technically be described as [hella-large](http://www.bae.uky.edu/dhancock/pictures/ICBM.JPG) so you could liken the approaching missile to a single-deck bus falling out of the sky, quite noticable I would imagine.
Your 30 mins of escape time is quite optimistic, I believe the actual warning is stated as about 12 minutes for a missile travelling from Moscow (i’m sure someone will correct me if that is wrong). Assuming you have 30 minutes I would go for the plane as the best means of escape (assuming you have equal access to all the modes of transport you specified) as you would clearly cover the most ground in a plane. It may be a good idea to land just before the ICBM hits earth (or do they explode at altitude?) in order to avoid the possible turbulence from a shockwave.
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### Author:  [@NathanForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NathanForce)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/3 "2005-03-15T09:36:10Z")
For this situation lets not say you have equal access. Lets say you have a car, like most Americans, but no boat or plane. If you want that you’ll have to steal or borrow one.
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### Author:  [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/4 "2005-03-15T09:37:29Z")
1. Unless you’re already airborne in a hypersonic plane of some sort, I’d assume that by the time the missile becomes visible to the naked eye, it’d be far too late to escape. Unless you were talking about really really low-yield weapons.
2. I’d just take out a pistol and shoot myself. Unless the entire city is willing to submit to its fate and not even attempt to escape (possible, I suppose), wouldn’t the ensuing mass panic and chaos make the roads all but untravellable? I guess you should either start maintaining your own fleet of jets or have an arsenal of assault weapons and explosives so that you can pave your own way through anybody who might obstruct your path.
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### Author:  [@NathanForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NathanForce)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/5 "2005-03-15T09:39:54Z")
I did say you have 30 mins warning, so we are not going by visual contact for warning. I know thats only a matter of seconds, at most, for visualization of the missle. I wonder how much protection you could get if you were underwater when the missle hit?
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### Author:  [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/6 "2005-03-15T09:42:43Z")
Well then it would depend on your proximity to an airport/port and your ability to control the vehicles, after all, what is the point in stealing a plane if you are going to ham-fistedly crash it into the ground seconds after take-off? So, ruling out access to planes and boats due to lack of piloting skills you are left with your car and several million like-minded Americans clogging up the routes away from the intended target, I assume several million because why would you target an area of low population?
Total grid lock would ensue and the motorbike might start to look appealing as a means of winding between the traffic and mowing down pedestrians on the pavement (sidewalk). It may also be worth considering the train, congestion cannot really occur on train lines so here is what I would do: Travel by motorbike to the train station, board a long-distance train and force the driver (either with violent threats or simply explaining the situation) to get the hell outta dodge and don’t spare the horses.
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### Author:  [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/7 "2005-03-15T10:18:17Z")
About #1. If an ICBM came a the US you would not see it. I saw footage at Sandia Labs once of a missle test. They had it slowed down as much as the VCR would play and even at that slow speed you couldn’t see the thing coming in. I did a little googling and the velocity they had for an incoming ICBM was mach 10+.
> [@](#):
>
> ICBMs have a terminal velocity of 15-25 thousand miles per hour and arrive at their target very quickly
from [http://www-scf.usc.edu/~recker/swreal.htm](http://www-scf.usc.edu/~recker/swreal.htm)
#2. As it turns out my Dad once upon a time had a job of predicting what missles would be launched where if a nuclear attack happened between the US and USSR. He was predicting damage. He is pretty knowledgable about the whole area and he basically said “Go west-north-west by car or on motorcycles”. We lived in Albuquerque at the time and he showed me a map and outlined what would get hit and where the fallout would probably go\*. The desert areas in the southwest would be the best place to go. You want to be west of the big cities and look for wide open places with no cities nearby. If you make it out of the blast area the next big thing is to get out of the fallout pattern. So go west.
Slee
\*I was about 12 or 13 when we had this conversation. Yes, it gave me nightmares. But I was the one who asked.
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### Author:  [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/8 "2005-03-15T10:28:56Z")
Is the 12 minute warning an accurate one? If so I can’t imagine you getting very far in a car along gridlocked streets in such a short period of time. Also, how would you find out about an imminent nuclear attack? Is there an existing system akin to the air-raid sirens of WWII ready to be put into action or would people have to rely on T.V. and radio to find out?
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### Author:  [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/9 "2005-03-15T11:33:06Z")
Where does the term **“four minute warning”** come from?
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### Author:  [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/10 "2005-03-15T12:02:37Z")
London has actually been attacked by ICBMs and they terrified the people here as you had absolutely no warning whatsoever.
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### Author:  [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/11 "2005-03-15T12:16:34Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#):
>
> Where does the term **“four minute warning”** come from?
This was a specifically British term. The original estimates were that Fylingdales (the UK’s BMEWS radar site) would be able to detect Soviet ICBMs a few minutes before they reached the UK, hence there would only be time for air-raid sirens to warn people to take shelter. Civil defence information in the period thus emphasised that you would only have the, now proverbial, “four minute warning”.
Because the distances were greater, US civilians would have had greater warning of a similar ICBM attack.
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### Author:  [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/12 "2005-03-15T12:27:34Z")
> [@](#):
>
> London has actually been attacked by ICBMs and they terrified the people here as you had absolutely no warning whatsoever.
And from what other continent have missiles ever been launched at London from?
I assume you refer to the German V2 rockets and such of WWII, but they were launched from Europe, of which continent London is a part, and never capable of inter-continental flight.
Being an island just of the coast of a continent doesn’t make the missile flight intercontinental. To qualify as an ICBM they really do need to be able to travel between continents.
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### Author:  [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/13 "2005-03-15T12:46:31Z")
> [@Blake](#):
>
> Being an island just of the coast of a continent doesn’t make the missile flight intercontinental. To qualify as an ICBM they really do need to be able to travel between continents.
The V-2 is an SRBM - “short range ballistic missile” from which the Scud missile is very closely descended. ICBMs typically have a range exceeding 1,000km. There’s no official line in the sand that says “okay now it’s inter-continental,” but the 1,000km mark is a pretty good rule of thumb.
Also, to answer the OP’s first question, you would likely see something [like this](http://www.arnold.af.mil/aedc/highmach/images/PADR01-142.jpg) or [this](http://www.smdc.army.mil/kwaj/Media/Photo/Peace_Reentry.jpg) coming down on neighboring cities. Reentry vehicles (RVs) are blunt mostly-conical blocks of metal wrapped in heat shielding, with a nuke stuffed inside. The largest ones are about the size of a Mini Cooper; the smallest ones are tall and skinny like a teenager. They come in fast – Mach 20+ – and so you won’t hear a sonic boom. Unless you’re watching the sky carefully, you might mistake it for airplane contrails in the few seconds you’d get.
If you had 30 minutes’ warning, which would pretty much be the maximum, and you knew where to expect an impact, then you could judge your reaction from there. If you’re in the blast zone and everyone finds out at once, forget it – you’re all cooked. One idiot trying to drive 70+ MPH out of the city wrecks, and everyone dies horribly. And yes, there are enough idiots out there to make that a statistical certainty. :smack:
Not cheerful, but I hope it answers the mail.
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### Author:  [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/14 "2005-03-15T13:03:36Z")
I saw the contrail from [this missle](http://usinfo.org/usia/usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/arms/02031601.htm) in flight and having seen video of ICBM flight tests before I was a little freaked, went straight home and turned on the news and posted to the dope wondering if there was some reason for ICBM launches only to find out later it was this test.
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### Author:  [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/15 "2005-03-15T13:09:23Z")
> [@NathanForce](#):
>
> What is the best method of escape in case of this grave situation? (car, boat, foot, plane) I’ve always told my friends I would fight to the very end to escape if this happened. Assume 30 mins warning (news reports, not visual)
Don’t forget to pack your clean water supply, food, medicines and weapons to defend yourself.
If there is a nuclear war, there’s far more to survival than getting out of the city.
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### Author:  [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/16 "2005-03-15T13:13:49Z")
In the event of an actual nuclear attack with the 12 minute warning it seems likely that your time would be better spent on the phone to loved ones or praying to whichever God you favour than joining the masses in a multi-car pileup on the first corner you come to. Or maybe staying put and seeking a bunker or deep concrete basement would be a decent use of your time if you are an athiest. With a full 30 minutes I would still favour the train idea as more trains can’t join the track and cause a jam, if you were already in the station you could get a good distance out of the city in half an hour, providing you had a reasonably straight track and preferably a decent train such as the TGV (300km/ph)
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/17 "2005-03-15T13:36:40Z")
> [@Jurph](#):
>
> The V-2 is an SRBM - “short range ballistic missile” from which the Scud missile is very closely descended. ICBMs typically have a range exceeding 1,000km. There’s no official line in the sand that says “okay now it’s inter-continental,” but the 1,000km mark is a pretty good rule of thumb.
Uh, you left out a zero there. Most modern ICBMs have ranges around 10,000 kilometers, or, at the very least, five or six thousand km. In no way can a missile with a range of 600 miles (±1,000 km) could be called intercontinental.
A 1,000 km missile could be classified as either short range or medium range, most likely the former.
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### Author:  [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/18 "2005-03-15T14:46:10Z")
> [@mittu](#):
>
> …Also, how would you find out about an imminent nuclear attack? Is there an existing system akin to the air-raid sirens of WWII ready to be put into action or would people have to rely on T.V. and radio to find out?
I assume that there’ll be a thread in MPSIMS, why?
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/19 "2005-03-15T15:20:26Z")
Why do you care?
ICBMs aren’t they most likely way for an A-Bomb or H-Bomb to arrive.
In an old rusty freighter, or the back of a truck, most likely.
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### Author:  [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-attack-questions/294613/20 "2005-03-15T15:36:09Z")
Actually, I think all of the above advice (and advice only) is flat wrong except for Sleestack’s. In the event of an imminent nuclear attack, get low. While ICBM’s have a big bang, they’re unlikely to hit you specifically. Even in a big urban area, they’re unlikely to get you without the Chunky Salsa technique. So get low, in a a sturdy basement, preferably with a few jugs of water. After the bang, get a cloth or (preferably) a particle mask to cover your face. Then clear out as fastas possible on foot or on a light motorized vehicle (not a car!! too many dead cars around to move it).
This would have ben good advice at Hiroshima, and while the bangs are bigger now, the principles are still good.
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