# Nuclear Bomb Test **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 13, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415 "2017-04-13T22:48:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/41 "2017-04-15T05:31:24Z")
The NORKS withdrew from the NPT as was their right under Article X of the Treaty. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/42 "2017-04-15T05:40:43Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Who’s got a recipe for yellowcake? > [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > This is not the Pit (but I’d love the recipe if this gets moved). Why, are you planning on building your own [nuke?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowcake) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/43 "2017-04-15T05:47:16Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The NORKS withdrew from the NPT as was their right under Article X of the Treaty. True, but since then there has been 14 UN security council resolutions condemning NK and imposing sanctions. It’s pretty rare that the five permanent members of the SC actually agree on something. NK also already made statements that would launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike in response to the yearly military exercises. > **[North Korea threatens nuclear strike over U.S.-South Korean exercises | CNN](https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/06/asia/north-korea-preemptive-nuclear-strike-threat/)** > > North Korea warned it would make a “preemptive and offensive nuclear strike” in response to joint U.S.-South Korean military exercises that began Monday. In the list of “stupid things leaders can do to cause them to be attacked”, IMO threatening a pre-emptive nuclear strike in reaction to the mere presence of nearby military exercises would pretty much be top of the list. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/44 "2017-04-15T05:51:29Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Why, are you planning on building your own [nuke?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowcake) 😃 d’oh! ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/45 "2017-04-15T05:58:28Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > d’oh! Don’t feel bad. I only know what yellowcake is from the movie _Get Smart!_ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/46 "2017-04-15T06:01:46Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I don’t know what all this means. But it sounds idiotic. North Korea has been rattling their sabers for decades. Why, in your mind, are they suddenly a threat to World Peace? They are a threat, but not a clear and present danger threat. I got into the thread because the op suggested essentially, firing a nuclear warning shot. If your gonna use nukes in Korea, then pick the target that would make the most sense, and thats a decapitation shot. I am not really concerned with the Nork leadership getting some sort of ICBM or SLBM, what I would be concerned with is a nuclear land mine, wait to be over run by allied forces and boom. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/47 "2017-04-15T06:19:22Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > I am not really concerned with the Nork leadership getting some sort of ICBM or SLBM, what I would be concerned with is a nuclear land mine, wait to be over run by allied forces and boom. All they have to do is put a nuke in the back of a truck and drive it to the DMZ, thats effectively the same as a nuclear land mine for these purposes, place it in an inconspicuous building and wait. They certainly already have that capability, and its highly unlikely that SK or the US would know which truck and that they had done this, just send it in an unmarked military truck like the 10’s of thousands of others that go back and forth to the DMZ. It’s pretty safe to assume that NK already has 5 or 6 nukes placed at intervals along the DMZ. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/48 "2017-04-15T07:00:51Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Now back on point, if your gonna be talking nukes, you don’t want to be talkin warning, you want to be going Old Testament, hold that gun to dear leaders head, pull the trigger and cancel that motherfuckers cheque. If that means we have to trash NK, SO BE IT,\*\* if that means SK gets trashed, SO BE IT, I will add Japan and China \*\*and skip the caps, as by now, I assume you realize what going Old Testament means in this regard. [My bolding] [Checks forum] . . . . Hi, Declan. Hand-wringing resident of Japan here. Just looking for some clarification on your plan for dealing with North Korea. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it looks to me like you’re suggesting a nuclear strike encompassing not only North Korea, but also China and even South Korea and Japan? In terms of military strategies for ensuring stability in the Asia Pacific region, nuking your allies would seem to me to be . . . [double-checks forum] . . . _ill-advised_. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/49 "2017-04-15T07:05:23Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > [Checks forum] . . . . > In terms of military strategies for ensuring stability in the Asia Pacific region, nuking your allies would seem to me to be . . . [double-checks forum] . . . _ill-advised_. I assume he meant that if SK, China or Japan get struck by NK in retaliation for a US attack it would still be worth it. That seems… dubious… ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/50 "2017-04-15T12:40:51Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Because we have a nuclear non-proliferation treaty which held for over 40 years in limiting the spread of nuclear weapons. North Korea signed it in 1985 then withdrew in 2003. (Note India, Pakistan and Israel never signed it, so when India and Pakistan pulled out their nukes they weren’t violating the treaty. > > Even NK’s closest ally China agrees NK should not have Nuclear Weapons. A nuclear strike on Seoul or Tokyo as well as being a horrendous loss of life would have devastating effects on the global economy. I agree that NK shouldn’t have nuclear weapons, but we all know that they do. What I’m getting at is knowing that they do, what harm does it cause if they set one off in a test? Is testing one considered more of a threat than merely having one? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/51 "2017-04-15T13:08:29Z")
Testing is part of making them more efficient (bigger bang in a smaller box, so more easy to transport), or more reliable. Also, there’s the whole missile program that seems to be directed towards developing delivery systems that could reach the US mainland. They aren’t just blowing up what they have, they’re trying to make better bombs and missiles, and that’s really what the problem is with the testing program. ---
**Author:** ![saturncomet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@saturncomet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saturncomet)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/52 "2017-04-15T16:51:12Z")
The test was only the official line unless we need a test. The reason is to totally scare the MF in n korea. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/53 "2017-04-15T18:13:54Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > [Checks forum] . . . . > > Hi, Declan. Hand-wringing resident of Japan here. > Just looking for some clarification on your plan for dealing with North Korea. > Correct me if I’m wrong, but it looks to me like you’re suggesting a nuclear strike encompassing not only North Korea, but also China and even South Korea and Japan? > > In terms of military strategies for ensuring stability in the Asia Pacific region, nuking your allies would seem to me to be . . . [double-checks forum] . . . _ill-advised_. Lets see if we can make you more comfortable with that choice, the same one that Europeans had been living with for the last fifty years. Nuclear weapons are not a panacea to solve problems, they are not holding back North Korea from invading South Korea. For that to happen, you need a rational actor in Norkville and an assumption that the threats you make will be carried out and that the NK’s believe that. So basically Micro MAD, so regardless of what you think of my personal decision making skills, do a search on North Korea in the board and read the threads, and it boils down to three end results. Status Quo ante bellum, in which case we do nothing and the world keeps on going and we pursue a mixture of diplomacy and sanctions in hope that a more rational actor will take the reins of North Korea, and we can close a chapter in the history books that some in the future will call the dark ages. Military action conventional, in which case its more likely that North Korea has done something that will generate a military response from us, in which case Seoul is most likely destroyed anyways, and that regional neighbors that host or can host American and allied forces striking into North Korea, will be under threat, if not smoking holes depending on if North Korea has the weapons that it says it does. Nuclear/conventional warfare, we hit the targets that we think can limit the amount of regional damage they can do. Nk’s know that, which is why your going to see nukes being used by us. Since war is a democracy, the other side is going to be doing the same before they lose the capability Their only real apparent weakness is the line of succession , if we get them all in one shot. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/54 "2017-04-15T18:16:37Z")
They seem to test one periodically just to remind everyone that they’re a world power too, or something. I think what is more concerning is the progress they make on delivery systems. If the nukes they have are restricted to North Korea, fine. If they can reach Japan or the US, well, Kim seems just nutty enough that he might do it one day. What we’re doing doesn’t improve the situation. Moving a carrier group and testing delivery systems just puts pressure on him that we’re finally going to come over his border or otherwise attack. He then feels that he must do something to protect himself. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/55 "2017-04-15T18:23:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Trump just dropped a weapon that was large enough to qualify as a tactical nuke. No he didn’t. I don’t know why people are so googly-eyed over a big bomb. Yeah, it’s a big bomb. It absolutely is not the same as a nuclear weapon. The smallest weapon in the American nuclear arsenal is many times more powerful than the MOAB. ---
**Author:** ![joema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@joema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joema)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/56 "2017-04-15T21:00:02Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Leaving aside the treaty violations this would entail… The 1963 Partial Test Ban Treaty does not prohibit nuclear detonations for military purposes. This is commonly misunderstood. It is not a ban on all nuclear detonations, it is simply a ban on nuclear tests. Military use of nuclear weapons is not prohibited by the treaty, nor apparently is non-test peaceful use of nuclear weapons in certain environments. This was discussed in U.S. congressional hearings in 1963: [![](https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hpvvJHw/0/M/i-hpvvJHw-M.jpg) ](https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hpvvJHw/0/M/i-hpvvJHw-M.jpg) Entire proceedings: [Nuclear Test Ban Treaty: Hearings Before the Committee on Foreign Relations ... - United States. Congress. Senate. Committee on Foreign Relations - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=ojBXI7fmRKIC&lpg=PA201&ots=JADq6n40yC&dq=test%20ban%20treaty%20exception%20wartime%20use&pg=PR1#v=onepage&q&f=false) The later Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty has never been ratified by the United States and is not in force: [Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Nuclear-Test-Ban_Treaty) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/57 "2017-04-15T22:15:04Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > Pretty sure he already knows you guys have lots of functional nukes. A nitpick but we don’t actually know whether they work or not. The US hasn’t tested a nuke since 1992. Indeed, no one apart from NK has tested a nuke since 1998. We expect them to work, but… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/58 "2017-04-15T22:23:40Z")
I suspect that even if one of our nuclear arsenal is a dud we still have sufficient conventional weaponry to do terrible things to North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/59 "2017-04-16T03:22:33Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Lets see if we can make you more comfortable with that choice, the same one that Europeans had been living with for the last fifty years. No, you haven’t made me more comfortable with that choice. Nor do I think most European’s would feel comfortable at the prospect of a global power on another hemisphere going\* “old testament” \*on one of their immediate neighbours where they and their allies would also be engulfed in Armageddon. I really don’t understand what you mean by\* “a rational actor in Norkville”, “Micro MAD”, “war is a democracy”\* or _“Status Quo ante bellum”_ in regard to the current state in NK. I think there’s more than just the three options as you’re presenting them, and from what I can parse. But that aside for now, which of these three are you suggesting is the best option? Your own words in Posts #29, #34 and #46 suggest you’re in favour of a preemptive nuclear strike on NK. Did I get that wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415/60 "2017-04-16T03:47:47Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > . The smallest weapon in the American nuclear arsenal is many times more powerful than the MOAB. The operative word in what I said is “tactical”. the MOAB was more powerful than the mk-54 tactical nuke that was deactivated in 1968. So we have effectively maintained a tactical nuclear devise without having to use the word “nuclear”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bomb-test/784415.md?page=4)