# Nuclear bunker busting bomb is a bust. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 26, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014 "2005-10-26T16:11:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/1 "2005-10-26T16:11:49Z")
[Funding](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BUNKER_BUSTER?SITE=MNWIN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)for the deep penetration mini-nuke has been stopped. I think that’s a good thing. > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON (AP) – The Bush administration is abandoning its push to develop a “bunker-buster” nuclear warhead and instead will pursue a conventional weapon that can penetrate hardened underground targets. > > Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M., said Tuesday that lawmakers had agreed drop funding for the proposed nuclear bunker-buster from the Energy Department’s budget for the 12 months beginning Oct 1. He said the Energy Department had requested the move because it no longer planned to pursue a nuclear bunker-buster. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/2 "2005-10-26T16:13:06Z")
Good, good. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/3 "2005-10-26T16:20:00Z")
Now, let’s work on getting rid of _all_ of them… ---
**Author:** ![Theologue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@Theologue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theologue)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/4 "2005-10-26T16:26:15Z")
I am _very_ glad to hear this. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/5 "2005-10-26T17:37:08Z")
Ditto. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/6 "2005-10-26T17:56:00Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Now, let’s work on getting rid of _all_ of them… No. We might _need_ one or two…to stop/re-direct a cometary/asteroid strike. Besides— > [@](#): > > We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. > ~~George Orwell The nations of the world are like wild beasts, wearing the masks of saints. **All** of them. Do not be fooled. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/7 "2005-10-26T17:57:41Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > No. > We might _need_ one or two…to stop/re-direct a cometary/asteroid strike. Good point. But let’s vow to never, ever, _ever_, under any circumstance, use them against another nation. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/8 "2005-10-26T18:51:39Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Good point. But let’s vow to never, ever, _ever_, under any circumstance, use them against another nation. Nice idea. I would like to think we live in a world where it could work. I’m not so sure though ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/9 "2005-10-26T19:05:09Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > The nations of the world are like wild beasts, wearing the masks of saints. > **All** of them. Do not be fooled. Is that your wording, or a quote? It’s gorgeous. Have you read Hoawrd Bloom’s _The Lucifer Principle_? I’m not quite sure what to make of him, but his take on the superorganism is very like what you wrote. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/10 "2005-10-27T00:17:17Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Is that your wording, or a quote? It’s gorgeous. > > Have you read Hoawrd Bloom’s _The Lucifer Principle_? I’m not quite sure what to make of him, but his take on the superorganism is very like what you wrote. > > Sailboat My own wording, & from the heart as well as the head. Good thing it’s Halloween, 'cause the people in charge are _scary!!_ :eek: :eek: :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/11 "2005-10-27T08:46:34Z")
**Bosda** , you’re too young to be so cynical. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/12 "2005-10-27T12:46:05Z")
> [@Dr. Rieux](#): > > **Bosda** , you’re too young to be so cynical. I’m 42. You godda problem with that? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/13 "2005-10-27T13:01:11Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Good point. But let’s vow to never, ever, _ever_, under any circumstance, use them against another nation. What color is the sky in your world, Polyanna? Technically speaking, it was an interesting idea, but it just didn’t work. The project wasn’t canceled simply because in involved big, bad, eeeeevil nuclear warheads, but because it turned out to be impossible to drive them deep enough underground to keep them from “roman candling.” Sometimes things just come all over busted. ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/14 "2005-10-27T16:05:50Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Good point. But let’s vow to never, ever, _ever_, under any circumstance, use them against another nation. Why, exactly, should the US limit itself like that? I can imagine many scenerios where the use of nuclear weapons might be completely neccessary to win or stalemate a war. At the very least, the US needs to have a large supply (enough to cause any plausible group of opposing countries to cease functioning as nations) ready, as a deterrent to being nuked first. Obvisouly, if the US vowed to never use such weapons against other nations, there wouldn’t be any deterrent effect. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/15 "2005-10-27T16:13:16Z")
The only nuclear weapons anyone should be allowed to possess are multi-megaton ICBMs capable of taking out large metropolitan areas and rendering substatial chunks of land completely uninhabitable. Why? Because those nukes are completely worthless unless you are crazy enough to want to end all human life. If you are, there is a good chance someone in your cadre is _not_ and will prevent you from pushing the button. If you are not, the bombs quietly sit in well-guarded silos and don’t pose a real threat to anyone. Creating smaller nukes, in the kiloton range, is actively harmful to life and peace on Earth because of projects like this. Small nukes can be seen as useful, maybe even useful in peactime projects (Digging a new Panama Canal, anyone?), and thus _will_ be used by otherwise sane people, releasing some very nasty nuclear material into the environment. Historically speaking, we’ve been rather bad at predcting and preventing long-term side effects from the pollutants we release. Large nukes are a deterrent and nothing else. Small nukes are a tool with side effects we cannot tolerate. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/16 "2005-10-27T17:52:39Z")
> [@RandomLetters](#): > > Why, exactly, should the US limit itself like that? I can imagine many scenerios where the use of nuclear weapons might be completely neccessary to win or stalemate a war. At the very least, the US needs to have a large supply (enough to cause any plausible group of opposing countries to cease functioning as nations) ready, as a deterrent to being nuked first. Obvisouly, if the US vowed to never use such weapons against other nations, there wouldn’t be any deterrent effect. The general idea is that _nobody_ uses them, not just the U.S. The human cost / damage toll is just too high. Exgineer: [Pollyanna](http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0486432068/qid=1130435445/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl74/702-0000696-1974448), schnookums. Why should we keep those “big, bad, eeeeevil nuclear warheads” around? ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/17 "2005-10-27T17:54:15Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > The general idea is that _nobody_ uses them, not just the U.S. The human cost / damage toll is just too high. To clarify, because I didn’t see **Derleth** ’s post earlier–to actively use them in warfare. Peacetime projects, as long as they’re rigidly controlled and involve no loss of human life, I have no problem with. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/18 "2005-10-27T20:46:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Peacetime projects, as long as they’re rigidly controlled and involve no loss of human life, I have no problem with. I do – read **The Firecracker Boys** , about Project Chariot. Or read up on Project Gasbuggy – if anything was more stupid than digging an unwanted and uneccessary deep-water harbor in the Arctic with nukes, it’s blowing them up under _Pennsylvania_ in an ill-considered quest for cheap natural gas storage. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/19 "2005-10-27T21:00:43Z")
Dammit, and I was hoping to get one for Christmas! C’mon guys, this _is_ MPSIMS, ya know … ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014/20 "2005-10-27T22:50:58Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > The only nuclear weapons anyone should be allowed to possess are multi-megaton ICBMs capable of taking out large metropolitan areas and rendering substatial chunks of land completely uninhabitable. Countries like China and India can easily afford the loss of multiple cities. With populations of over 1 billion, the loss of a hundred million or two is actually a benefit: less mouths to feed. Even 50% population loss would see them still the most populous countries in the world. And if another few million die from clearing up the radiation, from their eyes, so what? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-bunker-busting-bomb-is-a-bust/328014.md?page=2)