# Nuclear deal with Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128 "2015-07-14T11:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/241 "2015-07-18T16:27:31Z")
> [@rsa](#): > > \*\*\*\*[Yet he’s still an impartial pollster](http://www.luntzglobal.com/)? > Bolding mine. > > Do have any illusions about what “innovative” means in this context? Again, as I said, Frank Luntz is a renowned expert in his field. He is extremely competent. That’s why you and other liberals hate him. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/242 "2015-07-18T17:33:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Again, as I said, Frank Luntz is a renowned expert in his field. He is extremely competent. That’s why you and other liberals hate him. I’d have to see the specific questions asked and the methodology and such, but even at face value, the results of that poll are not consistent with such a broad statement as “Democrats are not friendly to Israel”. At most, that poll shows that a sizable portion (but not a majority) of Democrats see Israel as a racist country; if this poll accurately reflects the beliefs of Democrats, then I am troubled by the results (though I still think Democratic policies, in general, are better for Israel’s long term security than Republican policies). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/243 "2015-07-18T17:47:20Z")
Hey, just a second, guys, lets not be too hasty! After all, the results were posted in the highly renowned and scrupulously non-partisan [WorldTribune.com](http://WorldTribune.com) website. Which offers the entirely reasonable and non-partisan views of such as Michelle Malkin and the equally respected Dennis Prager! Who could read his column _June 26, 2015 marked the formal end of Judeo-Christian America_ and fail to recognize that we are in the presence of shrewd and unbiased intelligence? Or the estimable Ms Malkin, with such sobering questions as outlined in _The wine-sipping butchers of Planned Parenthood_. I have every confidence that friend **Terr** will not hesitate to bring us more of these crisp, clean, and insightful opinions. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/244 "2015-07-18T19:09:27Z")
> **[Little Change Since 2012 in Opinions About U.S. Support for Israel](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2015/02/27/more-view-netanyahu-favorably-than-unfavorably-many-unaware-of-israeli-leader/2-27-2015_02/)** It is pretty silly to use Luntz as a cite on this since he’s such a divisive character but also pretty silly that you guys just attack the source rather than do a simple fucking Google to get your own stats. Republicans undoubtedly show more support for Israel. According to the Pew research in that article above, 55% of Dems think the U.S. supports Israel the right amount while 54% of Republicans think the U.S. is not supportive enough. Hard to take that as Dems are no friends of Israel though. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/245 "2015-07-18T19:12:20Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Republicans undoubtedly show more support for Israel. According to the Pew research in that article above, 55% of Dems think the U.S. supports Israel the right amount while 54% of Republicans think the U.S. is not supportive enough. Undoubtedly Republicans say they support Israel more, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that Republican policies are better for Israel – I think they’re a lot worse, in general. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/246 "2015-07-18T19:21:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The second, again, very much not covert, goal is to split the US Jewish organizations in their support for Israel - from inside. Most Jews do see through the pretense and see that goal, and it won’t work. > **[Strong support for Israel in U.S. cuts across religious lines](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/02/27/strong-support-for-israel-in-u-s-cuts-across-religious-lines/)** > > The American Israel Public Affairs Council meets in Washington starting Sunday to lobby on issues affecting that country, and it can look to American Christians as a source of support for Israel. American jews line up with Dems in the number who think current support for Israel is “about right”, at 54%, and don’t really come close to the Repubs level for "not supportive enough " at only 31%. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/247 "2015-07-18T19:57:05Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > [http://www.people-press.org/2015/02/27/more-view-netanyahu-favorably-than-unfavorably-many-unaware-of-israeli-leader/2-27-2015\_02/](http://www.people-press.org/2015/02/27/more-view-netanyahu-favorably-than-unfavorably-many-unaware-of-israeli-leader/2-27-2015_02/) > > It is pretty silly to use Luntz as a cite on this since he’s such a divisive character but also pretty silly that you guys just attack the source rather than do a simple fucking Google to get your own stats. For me, these stats from the WorldTribune article were obviously ridiculous on their face (in particular the 47% “racist” stat). > [@](#): > > Luntz’s poll found that 76 percent of Democrats, but only 20 percent of Republicans, thought Israel had “too much influence” on U.S. policy. It found 47 percent of Democrats agreed Israel is a racist country, compared with only 13 percent of Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/248 "2015-07-18T20:08:58Z")
If you polled Americans about whether America was a racist country what do you think the stats would be? I don’t think you should be that confident that those numbers are obviously ridiculous. Really depends on how the question was phrased. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/249 "2015-07-18T21:02:48Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Again, as I said, Frank Luntz is a renowned expert in his field. He is extremely competent. That’s why you and other liberals hate him. If you’ve got miraculous mind-reading powers, why aren’t you making money playing poker? Or, just maybe, you don’t know anything at all about what other people think. That’s pretty obvious when you make incorrect declarations like this. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/250 "2015-07-18T21:08:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Was he tapping his foot? No but if he chose to wall his hands next to me I was going to run. He was an 80 year old small man but I want going to take chances ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/251 "2015-07-18T21:11:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It works the other way too – if this deal goes through, and a Democrat wins in 2016 (after, presumably, AIPAC attacks the Democrats), then the Israel lobby (and AIPAC in particular) will lose a huge amount of influence – politicians will no longer fear them. You really think Hillary would ever turn her back on Israel no matter what they do? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/252 "2015-07-18T21:14:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, OK, does _anyone_ sincerely oppose Netanyahu and his policies? Are we to take it that anyone who pretends such sincerity … No they are just anti semites ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/253 "2015-07-18T23:36:46Z")
Well, that certainly simplifies things, so it has that going for it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/254 "2015-07-18T23:54:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You really think Hillary would ever turn her back on Israel no matter what they do? No (thankfully), but I think it’s entirely possible to be an ally and friend of Israel without deferring to AIPAC or other lobbying organizations. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/255 "2015-07-19T02:37:07Z")
The President is offering ISrael more military aid, which is a tacit recognition that they’ll need it. But yeah, I don’t think favoring the Iran deal means you aren’t an ally of Israel. As I said, Obama’s playing the long game here, but in the meantime Israel is going to be doing a lot more fighting, and we’ll support them in their fighting, especially since we made it necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/256 "2015-07-19T04:21:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The President is offering ISrael more military aid, which is a tacit recognition that they’ll need it. . . . That doesn’t follow logically. It could only be a recognition that they might need it. It could be a strategic deterrent, in that the stronger a nation’s military, the more likely they won’t actually have to use it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/257 "2015-07-19T04:37:20Z")
When you say he “offered” more military aid, with the insinuation that it was by way of apology or admission of some offense…do you mean that he offered it without any prompting from Israel? They did not ask for this aid? Which all the more underlines your inference about it being a “tacit recognition”? Googling aid to Israel, sort by date, shows a rather different picture, with several references to Israel asking for a 50% increase in aid for months before the deal was made. If the deal had failed, were they going to give it back? There is _one_ “White House reportedly offers to boost military aid to Israel after Iran deal”. From Fox News. Mmm, yes. Quite. Anyway, the iron chain of insinuation lends firm support to your image of an innocent Israel, a lamb amongst the daffodils, assaulted on all sides with Obama’s invitation. Through no fault of her own, mind you, her fierce devotion to peace attested by her weapons requests. We, which is to say “Obama”, made it necessary. There are facts in your post, yes, but the facts are presented the same way a kid’s party clown renders a long balloon into a giraffe - by way of artful twisting. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/258 "2015-07-19T05:38:07Z")
I didn’t say it was an apology to Israel, just recognition that aid to Hezbollah and Hamas will go up. Syria, Iran’s lone friend, and also a big supporter of this deal, can also expect more military aid now, which will make fighting ISIS easier, but also make fighting pro democracy forces easier. So we’ll probably have to throw more money in that direction too. Then there’s the Saudis fighting Iranian proxies in Yemen, so they’ll also need more money. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/259 "2015-07-19T06:17:53Z")
Well, my mistake then, I’m probably the only one who thought you were trying to pull a slow one. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/260 "2015-07-19T15:45:30Z")
In favour of the deal, we have not only - as already mentioned in this thread - the P5+1, all NATO countries AFAIK (including the Turks), and both the Iraqi government, the country’s Kurdish region, and, of course, the anti-ISIS Iraqi Shi’ites. Who else is psyched? India, the world’s biggest democracy, [is thrilled about the trade opportunities](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-33547061). So is its archenemy, Pakistan, [which is looking forward to importing huge amounts of natural gas](http://www.voanews.com/content/pakistan-hopes-to-benefit-from-iran-nuclear-deal-with-chinese-help/2864001.html). Japan - third biggest economy in the world - [also supports the deal](http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/04/23/national/politics-diplomacy/japans-ties-iran-grow-final-nuclear-deal-abe-says/#.VavDmxOqqkp): > [@](#): > > On the sidelines of a meeting of Asian and African leaders in Jakarta on Wednesday, Abe expressed hope for Rouhani’s leadership to realize the final deal and said he is “convinced” that Japan’s political and economic ties with Iran will be strengthened if that is reached, according to the government. Also in favour? [Pope Francis.](http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-applauds-nuclear-deal-calls-for-commitment-to-make-it-bear-fruit-11947/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=14)