# Nuclear deal with Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128 "2015-07-14T11:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/541 "2015-08-12T17:03:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Ravenman, your faith in the international community’s spine is adorable. Your analysis of international politics beggars my wildest imagination. It has nothing to do with my faith that the international community will do the right thing, or whatever. You’re asserting things that have no relation to reality in the slightest. Obama and NATO now accept an Iranian bomb? This is just nonsense. It’s a figment of your imagination. There’s no basis for you to conclude this. It’s like arguing against the idea that Obama is actually a lizard-person. The whole damned agreement is to prevent an Iranian bomb, and you think it’s proof that they are happy with Iran having a bomb? How do you come to such conclusions? I mean, are you reading newspapers from bizarro-earth? When Tea Partiers bring lawsuits against Obamacare, do you take that as evidence that they love Obamacare? When Democrats propose gun control laws, do you take this as proof that members of my party are all actually gun nuts who are heavily armed at all times? And most importantly, can I ask you why you come out with nonsensical statements like this time and time again, when you can’t back up why this agreement “makes an Iranian bomb more likely” as you have said? I’m not sure whether I can expect an answer to that question, or whether I should simply steel myself for more poo to be flung against the wall with additional nonsensical charges of how awful Obama is. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/542 "2015-08-12T17:05:03Z")
Let’s say the US Congress says, “No way”. So the international community would respond by lifting the sanctions anyway? That concedes an Iranian bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/543 "2015-08-12T17:05:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So I was right that the international community is willing to accept an Iranian bomb. No, the international community wasn’t “willing to accept an Iranian bomb.” The international community wanted two things - an end to sanctions, and a path away from an Iranian bomb. Through this deal, they got both things. That’s why practically everyone digs it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/544 "2015-08-12T17:08:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So I was right that the international community is willing to accept an Iranian bomb. Otherwise, US intransigence would keep international sanctions in place. The sanctions had nothing to do with it, since they wouldn’t have prevented Iran from getting a bomb. If you mean the international community is not willing to invade and occupy Iran, then you’re probably right… but that’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/545 "2015-08-12T17:17:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Let’s say the US Congress says, “No way”. So the international community would respond by lifting the sanctions anyway? That concedes an Iranian bomb. If the United States stabs its allies in the back by rejecting all the effort they put into working with the U.S. to obtain the deal, I’m not sure what they will do. It has nothing to do with them happily accepting an Iranian bomb. And in fact, Netanyahu has argued that Iran is just months away from a weapon… even with the sanctions in place. So which is it, **adaher**? You can’t agree with Israel that Iran is on the verge of a nuclear weapon today with the sanctions in place, and then say that sanctions are the thing that is preventing Iran from getting a bomb. Do you view George W. Bush as accepting an Iranian bomb? Because the last known weapons work Iran undertook occurred during his presidency, and as far as I can see, he didn’t actually do anything at all about the problem. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/546 "2015-08-12T17:39:42Z")
Sanctions and Stuxnet qualify as doing something. Iranian scientists have also been assassinated at a pretty high rate. Now it could be I’m giving Obama too hard a time here and we will continue to kill Iranian scientists and sabotage their research. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/547 "2015-08-12T17:47:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So I was right that the international community is willing to accept an Iranian bomb. Otherwise, US intransigence would keep international sanctions in place. This is ridiculous. The international community isn’t willing to let the US Congress unilaterally dictate their policy. That doesn’t mean anything except that they’re unwilling to let a far-right foreign government dictate their policy. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/548 "2015-08-12T17:54:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Now it could be I’m giving Obama too hard a time here and we will continue to kill Iranian scientists and sabotage their research. Sounds like you think that is something to be proud of. I suppose if Iran performed similar acts against US researchers you would call that terrorism, wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/549 "2015-08-12T18:03:13Z")
Iran does do assassinations and bombings and the like. I don’t care what you want to call it, it’s war. And we are fighting back. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/550 "2015-08-12T19:06:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Iran does do assassinations and bombings and the like. I don’t care what you want to call it, it’s war. And we are fighting back. So it’s just legitimate means of warfare? And here I thought you were critisizing them for it. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/551 "2015-08-12T19:15:58Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > So it’s just legitimate means of warfare? > And here I thought you were critisizing them for it. I think what he’s trying to say is that it’s only wrong if they do it. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/552 "2015-08-12T20:36:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > NOW, yes. We shouldn’t have had the talks to begin with. The status quo should have been maintained. . . . But that would have led to Iran obtaining nuclear weapons. How do you figure that would have been a good strategy? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/553 "2015-08-12T21:10:25Z")
[http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-iran-20150812-story.html](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-iran-20150812-story.html) > [@](#): > > President Barack Obama got a welcome boost to his campaign to forge a deal limiting Iran’s nuclear program this week when a distinguished group of retired generals and admirals released an open letter calling on Congress to ratify the accord as “the most effective means currently available to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons.”… A pity these so called “experts” did not consult **addy**. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/554 "2015-08-12T21:55:22Z")
All those generals are obviously fine with Iran getting the bomb. We know this because they wrote a letter. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/555 "2015-08-12T22:06:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Let’s say the US Congress says, “No way”. So the international community would respond by lifting the sanctions anyway? That concedes an Iranian bomb. If there was no deal due to Iranian rejection of any deal acceptable to the P5+1, the sanctions might stay in place. If there was no deal because the US Congress rejected an agreement that was eminently acceptable to the rest of the P5+1 _and_ to Iran, also known as a _diplomatic solution_, the rest of the world might conclude that no further useful purpose could be served by maintaining sanctions. The world would conclude: the sanctions aren’t motivating a diplomatic solution, they aren’t preventing a nuke, and they’re hurting all of our economies, so they’re pointless. Being stuck by US intransigence with only the two remaining options of war or acquiescing in a potential Iranian bomb, and choosing the latter, is not “conceding an Iranian bomb.” It’s conceding that stopping an Iranian nuclear bomb isn’t worth going to war over. That’s evidently not Obama’s stated position (though I wish it were); but it is surely the position of many if not all the parties to the negotiations and the sanctions regime. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/556 "2015-08-12T22:09:40Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > All those generals are obviously fine with Iran getting the bomb. We know this because they wrote a letter. No, they’re obviously fine with Iran getting the bomb because they didn’t fly over and personally ride a nuke into Tehran (cowboy hat optional). ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/557 "2015-08-12T22:35:30Z")
Iran has been six months from a bomb forever. It’s oddly comforting that not even this deal can stop the fearmongering. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/558 "2015-08-12T22:53:49Z")
One thing that is not clear-Iran doesn’t have a single operating nuclear power plant yet, so why the need for all this enrichment capacity? Are they planning on building dozens of nuclear plants? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/559 "2015-08-12T23:48:35Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > One thing that is not clear-Iran doesn’t have a single operating nuclear power plant yet, so why the need for all this enrichment capacity? Are they planning on building dozens of nuclear plants? Why doesn’t Bushehr count? ETA: I’m not saying that Iran’s enrichment program isn’t deeply suspicious, or that it is actually needed for them at all. But Bushehr does seem to be operating… ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/560 "2015-08-13T07:20:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > All those generals are obviously fine with Iran getting the bomb. We know this because they wrote a letter. The same is true for [these 100+ former American diplomats](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/17/us/politics/former-us-diplomats-praise-iran-deal.html?_r=0). Guess they all want to hand the Ayatollah a nice, shiny arsenal o’ nukes. And [these 60+ former senior U.S. national-security officials](http://www.scribd.com/doc/271988995/Statement-by-60-National-Security-Leaders-on-the-Announcement-of-a-Joint-Comprehensive-Plan-of-Action). All eager adherents of Khomeinism, I’m sure. Not to mention [those 29 nuclear physicists](http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/08/08/world/document-iranletteraug2015.html), as well as [five former U.S. ambassadors to Israel and three former U.S. undersecretaries of state](http://www.scribd.com/doc/272679222/Letter-on-JCPOA-From-Former-Und-Sec-State-and-US-Ambs-to-Israel-to-House-Leadership). Traitors to a man, sure to enroll in Iran’s Revolutionary Guards any moment now. BTW the _New York Times_ now reports that the head of an advocacy group virulently opposed to the deal - “United Against Nuclear Iran” - [resigned after he finally got around to actually study the damn thing](http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/12/world/middleeast/head-of-group-opposing-iran-accord-quits-post-saying-he-backs-deal.html). Priceless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=29)