# Nuclear deal with Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128 "2015-07-14T11:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/41 "2015-07-14T15:40:53Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Im not sure treaties are subject to presidential veto This particular one is a special case, due to the [oversight process](https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/615) agreed to by Congress and the President. Congress will have 60 days to review the potential deal, and then they can vote to approve or disapprove it. If they disapprove it, the President can veto their disapproval and go forward with the deal unless there is a veto-proof majority in both the House and Senate. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/42 "2015-07-14T15:41:57Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Its probably impossible to stop any moderately wealthy country from acquiring a bomb. While working on non-proliferation lets also sort out the other regional issues…if they are capable of being sorted out. I would add any agreement that doesnt try to alleviate causes of regional tension just puts a bandaid on the problem. For the moment lets hope for the best. In your opinion, is the region better or worse off if the US has a working relationship with Iran with the potential to build trust in the next 10 years? Do you think the US might stand a better chance of getting Saudi Arabia, Israel and Iran to sit at one table in the near future if it builds and continues to maintain cordial relations with all parties? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/43 "2015-07-14T15:51:28Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > In your opinion, is the region better or worse off if the US has a working relationship with Iran with the potential to build trust in the next 10 years? > > Do you think the US might stand a better chance of getting Saudi Arabia, Israel and Iran to sit at one table in the near future if it builds and continues to maintain cordial relations with all parties? It could and Id like to hope that it would, But…there are a litmus test or two that we might employ to see how serious the Iranians are in wanting regional peace: > **[Iran and Lebanon](http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/iran-and-lebanon)** > > Emile Hokayem   Iran’s 1979 revolution transformed relations with Lebanon and p > **[Iran–Lebanon relations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Lebanon_relations)** > > Iran and Lebanon have diplomatic relations, with embassies in each other countries. Since the Iranian Revolution in 1979, the two countries have deepened relations amidst controversy in Lebanon and abroad. > In a 2012 Pew Global Attitudes survey, 39% of Lebanese people viewed Iran favorably, compared to 61% which viewed it unfavorably. 62% of Lebanese oppose Iranian acquisition of nuclear weapons, 57% consider a nuclear-armed Iran a threat, and 74% approve of "tougher sanctions" on Iran, while 46%... How will Iran use their Hezbollah allies in Lebanon? Any regional peace has to include a thaw between Iran and Israel. It has been argued that the two countries are natural though unlikely allies [https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/capsule-review/2007-11-01/treacherous-alliance-secret-dealings-israel-iran-and-united-states](https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/capsule-review/2007-11-01/treacherous-alliance-secret-dealings-israel-iran-and-united-states) The region will be far safer with some thawing here…maybe the ISIS threat will rekindle this And how will Iran act against Iraq? Also, my definition of cordial relations would mean that neither party secretly is working to undermine any deals. But, if both sides are working towards peace, then its a good sign that the region is safer. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/44 "2015-07-14T16:35:04Z")
I see that a number of conservatives have already used the a-word. For them, it’s always Neville Chamberlain, Munich, 1938. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/45 "2015-07-14T16:36:02Z")
So many strange questions. Iran supports Hezbollah. What of it? None of the signatories can claim to be free of violent friends. > [@madsircool](#): > > How will Iran use their Hezbollah allies in Lebanon? The way it has always used them - as a thorn in Israel’s side. What of it? > [@madsircool](#): > > Any regional peace has to include a thaw between Iran and Israel. OK. Go tell Netanyahu. > [@madsircool](#): > > And how will Iran act against Iraq? “Against”? Iran will naturally continue supporting Iraq, a fellow Shi’ite majority country, and continue to try to keep it united, stable, prosperous and above all loyal, as any budding regional power would. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/46 "2015-07-14T16:45:21Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > [http://www.timesofisrael.com/chanting-death-to-israel-iran-al-quds-day-marches-draw-millions/](http://www.timesofisrael.com/chanting-death-to-israel-iran-al-quds-day-marches-draw-millions/) > > [Iran’s supreme leader screams ‘Death to America’ amid ongoing nuclear talks](http://nypost.com/2015/03/23/irans-supreme-leader-screams-death-to-america-amid-ongoing-nuclear-talks/) What was the point of providing those two links, which have absolutely nothing to do with Iranian reaction to the completed deal? Way to poison the well. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/47 "2015-07-14T16:47:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I see that a number of conservatives have already used the a-word. “Applesauce?” ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/48 "2015-07-14T16:50:00Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > So many strange questions. > > Iran supports Hezbollah. What of it? None of the signatories can claim to be free of violent friends. > > The way it has always used them - as a thorn in Israel’s side. What of it? > > OK. Go tell Netanyahu. > > “Against”? Iran will naturally continue supporting Iraq, a fellow Shi’ite majority country, and continue to try to keep it united, stable, prosperous and above all loyal, as any budding regional power would. Since Hezbollah has undermined the legitimate Lebanese gvt for decades? Yeah its all Netanyahus fault. After all hes the one who wants to [Sworn to Destruction: 20 Threats Iranian Leaders Made Against Israel in 2013](http://www.buzzfeed.com/jerusalemcenter/sworn-to-destruction-20-threats-iranian-leaders-m-hys5) Iraq is an Arab country first and the last thing Iran wants is it to be united and prosperous. And it has never been loyal and never will be. The issue is will Iran be a force for regional stabilization or destabilization. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/49 "2015-07-14T16:52:56Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > What was the point of providing those two links, which have absolutely nothing to do with Iranian reaction to the completed deal? Way to poison the well. You mean these two very recent links? They say alot about Iranian feelings toward the west and Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/50 "2015-07-14T17:05:34Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > You mean these two very recent links? They say alot about Iranian feelings toward the west and Israel. No one can seriously deny that there is a lot of enmity towards the US in the Iranian population. The agreement may have appeased a few, but it seems unlikely that the majority of those who cried “Death to the USA” a few months ago feel fundamentally different now. However, one should not make the mistake of taking that belligerent bravado as a prelude to any kind of imminent attack. Just as much as the warcries of some American forum posters do not mean that the US are going to rain smartbombs upon Teheran anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/51 "2015-07-14T17:06:02Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > You mean these two very recent links? They say alot about Iranian feelings toward the west and Israel. They are irrelevant to the post you responded to. How about links that convey the Iranian public’s actual [reaction to the deal.](http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/03/middleeast/iran-celebrations-nuclear-deal/) ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/52 "2015-07-14T17:18:16Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > No one can seriously deny that there is a lot of enmity towards the US in the Iranian population. The agreement may have appeased a few, but it seems unlikely that the majority of those who cried “Death to the USA” a few months ago feel fundamentally different now. > However, one should not make the mistake of taking that belligerent bravado as a prelude to any kind of imminent attack. Just as much as the warcries of some American forum posters do not mean that the US are going to rain smartbombs upon Teheran anytime soon. I agree with the caveat that these demonstrators must have powerful friends in the government. Also I believe that the elimination of Israel is a goal of a segment of the gvt. I posted the link between the secret alliance between Israel and Iran because this actually makes the most strategic sense for Iran…who will always be natural rivals to the Arab states. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/53 "2015-07-14T17:20:39Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > They are irrelevant to the post you responded to. > > How about links that convey the Iranian public’s actual [reaction to the deal.](http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/03/middleeast/iran-celebrations-nuclear-deal/) You would know that this is the ‘real’ reaction just how? How is it any more or less real than the earlier demonstrations. After all, we know that the Trump rallies this past weekend is Americas real reaction to illegal immigration. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/54 "2015-07-14T17:38:47Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > You would know that this is the ‘real’ reaction just how? How is it any more or less real than the earlier demonstrations. After all, we know that the Trump rallies this past weekend is Americas real reaction to illegal immigration. Are you purposefully trying to be obtuse? Your links were not reactions to the nuclear deal, nor had they any relevance to it. Your links seemed to be simply a tossing of a live grenade for the sole purpose of…well, I don’t really know what the purpose was. To show that Iranians hate America? You could also have posted your links in a thread about traditional Iranian cuisine for all the relevance it has to this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/55 "2015-07-14T17:57:28Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This is pretty much a textbook definition of ad hominem. If the analysis is poor it should be shown to be poor on its own - not based on who put it forward. > > I supported the Iraq war in 2003. That was a mistake. I based my support on misinformation that was pushed by the administration. What misinformation do you think is being pushed now, the day the announcement was made? I don’t know if the deal with Iran is good or not. It seems too soon to tell. The fact that the administration (and many others who were pushing for the war in Iraq) were misleading you undermines their credibility here as well doesn’t it? The fact that they were so horribly wrong on not just the facts but on how things would play out says something about their ability to prognosticate the future doesn’t it? I would say that your acceptance of this misinformation might say something about your judgment if Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice didn’t also get bamboozled. There was a deliberate attempt to try and fool you. So why would you believe any of those people again? It wasn’t just people who were political adversaries taking a contrary position to the president. There was credible evidence that the administration was full of shit on the Iraq link to 9/11. There was credible evidence that the administration was pushing the envelope on the WMD front. There was credible evidence to believe that an invasion of Iraq would be more costly in lives and treasure than the administration was willing to admit. Its not like there weren’t people who were getting things rights. Shinseki told us that we needed a much larger force to take and hold Iraq. He got sacked. Joe Wilson wrote an article casting doubt on the fact that Iraq was pursuing a nuclear weapon and his wife was outed as a CIA operative. There wasn’t just disinformation, there was a deliberate attempt to silence any dissenting opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/56 "2015-07-14T18:00:44Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Since Hezbollah has undermined the legitimate Lebanese gvt for decades? Let’s say that’s true. Who gives a shit? What difference does it make, with regards to the deal at hand? > [@madsircool](#): > > Iraq is an Arab country first and the last thing Iran wants is it to be united and prosperous. Wrong. Iran wants Iraq to stay united, and have acted accordingly since day one. If you have cites showing that the Iranian leadership wants Iraq to partition into two or several smaller countries, by all means provide them. ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/57 "2015-07-14T18:00:45Z")
This survey is old: > **[RAND\_TR910.pdf](https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/technical_reports/2011/RAND_TR910.pdf)** > > 1055.45 KB But the opinions were pretty negative to reestablishing relations with the US. On the plus side - opinions on nuclear weapons were split - with a little more strongly opposing than strongly favoring - and the opposition increased with education. It (opposition) did NOT decrease with age (as I would have predicted). I don’t know much about the Middle East, but I believe it might be like many countries - a polarized population of progressives and conservatives (yes overly simplistic groupings) and with politicians saying one thing to stoke the population to vote for them while doing another when pragmatism dictates. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/58 "2015-07-14T18:00:49Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > It also seems like a good way to filter out most of the people who are inclined to disagree with you and have a merry chat with the rest. I ignore creationists on all issues related to science. When a creationist starts to talk about the science behind global warming, I just ignore them. They may very well have something to contribute but I feel like I can safely ignore them without creating an echo chamber for myself. Similarly, I feel like I can ignore anyone who was a neocon on anything (should I end the sentence right here?) having to do with foreign policy (or here) in the middle east. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/59 "2015-07-14T18:04:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I paid attention to the exact words you used, and I disagree. And I say that as someone who did not support the Iraq invasion. But then, I approach this whole thing a lot differently than a lot of people since I don’t see a nuclear Iran as something I would be willing to go to war over. Hence, whatever deal is reached is probably OK with me. I think Iran is potentially a better ally to us than is Saudi Arabia (if I had to choose between the two). And what if these calls for rejecting the deal starts to meander into lines in the sand and military action? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/60 "2015-07-14T18:11:08Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I see that a number of conservatives have already used the a-word. > [@Ravenman](#): > > “Applesauce?” Argyle? I’m a skeptic. I’m sure Iran is already figuring out ways to skirt around the agreement and keep developing nukes. And the way the Ayatolla has been talking, it’s not at all clear that he’s really on board this train. I’ve read reports suggesting that this might prompt Saudi Arabia to develop nuclear bombs. (They live right down the street from Iran, after all.) They have enough money that they could just straight-up buy some nukes from China and/or Russia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=4)