# Nuclear deal with Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128 "2015-07-14T11:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/681 "2015-08-20T05:44:05Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > When is Israel going to open its nuclear facilities to international inspectors? Last I heard Israel hadn’t promised to wipe one of its neighbors off the map. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/682 "2015-08-20T06:42:15Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > …Your turn - bring out a nuclear expert that says that asking Iran to inspect itself will be effective. Main guy on our negotiating team, Ernest Moniz. > [@](#): > > …Moniz attended Boston College, where he received his Bachelor of Science summa cum laude in physics, and he later received his PhD in theoretical physics from Stanford University in 1972…Moniz is one of the founding members of The Cyprus Institute and the Cecil and Ida Green Professor of Physics and Engineering Systems, Director of the Energy Initiative, and Director of the Laboratory for Energy and the Environment at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology… Of course, it is worthy of note that he most likely would not use the same terminology as you…“asking Iran to inspect itself”… but he is nonetheless on record as publicly affirming that he did not totally screw the pooch on this job. Anything else? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/683 "2015-08-20T06:47:31Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Last I heard Israel hadn’t promised to wipe one of its neighbors off the map. Plus Israel didn’t sign the NPT. Iran, like a few other nations, used the NPT to enable them to gain nuclear technology they would have never discovered on their own. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/684 "2015-08-20T10:03:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Of course he lied. It’s what he does. There is no snapback either. The ink isn’t even dry and many countries are investing a ton in Iran. There will be no snapback. Could you keep your personal feelings about the President out of this? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/685 "2015-08-20T12:04:04Z")
That’s not personal feelings. “He lies” is a provable statement. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/686 "2015-08-20T12:06:04Z")
What is the end game here? 1. President sets up fake treaty 2. Iran get nukes 3. ??? 4. Profit! Do you genuinely believe the president is fighting for a nuclear Iran? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/687 "2015-08-20T12:07:52Z")
No, I believe he’s fighting to not have to solve the problem during his term. I also believe he got rolled by Russia and China, and a Europe resigned to an Iranian nuke but figuring they can profit from doing business with Iran. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/688 "2015-08-20T12:27:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s not personal feelings. “He lies” is a provable statement. “It’s what he does” is personal feelings (which you’ve freely admitted holding). Assuming any and every statement he makes is a lie is personal feelings. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/689 "2015-08-20T12:29:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, I believe he’s fighting to not have to solve the problem during his term. I also believe he got rolled by Russia and China, and a Europe resigned to an Iranian nuke but figuring they can profit from doing business with Iran. The vast majority of nuclear disarmament experts seem to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/690 "2015-08-20T12:52:54Z")
Their analysis is based on Iran keeping the agreement. And the President already lied about this: “Inspectors will also be able to access any suspicious location. Put simply, the organization responsible for the inspections, the IAEA, will have access where necessary, when necessary.” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/691 "2015-08-20T12:54:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s not personal feelings. “He lies” is a provable statement. “ **adaher** often disregards facts in order to make bold statements” is also a provable fact. However, when statements like these are used to preemptively dismiss someone’s assertions without dealing with them on the merits, it is called poisoning the well and an ad hominem attack. To use my own words to describe what **iiandyiiii** is asking is for you to stop relying on shitty fallacious arguments to grab attention away from the grown-ups having an actual substantive debate. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/692 "2015-08-20T12:55:24Z")
Is this a new rule, no ad hominem attacks on the President? Where was that rule eight years ago I wonder? Tell ya what, guarantee right here and now, put your rep on the line: Iran will not cheat, and if they do, there will be snapback sanctions. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/693 "2015-08-20T13:08:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Is this a new rule, no ad hominem attacks on the President? Where was that rule eight years ago I wonder? Tell ya what, guarantee right here and now, put your rep on the line: Iran will not cheat, and if they do, there will be snapback sanctions. I’m not a moderator. What I’m saying is your method of argument is as tiresome as was **Diogenes** or similar folks. But yes, I’m happy to say that I believe if Iran cheats – which is possible – the odds are overwhelmingly high that there will be a strong reaction to the cheating, which could include snapback, war, and perhaps some other measures I can’t think of right now. Of course, there are going to be the typical right wing folks who will find that everything Iran does is a violation of the agreement. The paperwork on the safeguards agreement was filed without form 145B – VIOLATION!!! There’s a technical question that remains unresolved – VIOLATION!!! Netanyahu is making up some more nonsense about Iran being able to build a bomb in the next 15 minutes – VIOLATION!!! The Supreme Leader said “Death to America” – VIOLATION!!! You know, the sort of nonsense that I expect from people who maintain that we really did find WMD in Iraq or from certain participants in this thread. When I say “cheat,” I’m talking about the U.S. intelligence community or the IAEA assessing that Iran is not holding up its end of the bargain. Ok, so if reputation is so important to you, what are you putting on the line that you haven’t wagered already? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/694 "2015-08-20T13:52:50Z")
What I want to know is if Bibi will go back in front of the UN with his bomb-o-meter showing that Iranian nuclear weapon development is now at 130%. I mean, it was supposed to be done eight years ago and they’ve had all that time _and_ this deal to finish work. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/695 "2015-08-20T13:59:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What I want to know is if Bibi will go back in front of the UN with his bomb-o-meter showing that Iranian nuclear weapon development is now at 130%. I mean, it was supposed to be done eight years ago and they’ve had all that time _and_ this deal to finish work. It’s worse than that. He’s been saying they’d have the bomb in a year or two for decades. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/696 "2015-08-20T15:09:34Z")
According to [this link](http://www.juancole.com/2015/08/inspect-nuclear-facilities.html), the assertions that Iran will be able to do their own inspections and take their own samples without IAEA present are entirely false. According to the link, “The accord actually provides for the inspectors of the International Atomic Energy Agency always to be present at such inspections”. So even if Iranians are doing the inspections or taking samples, _they’re doing so in the presence of IAEA inspectors_. The purpose of this is to assuage Iran’s fears that the inspectors might conduct espionage in sensitive facilities. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/697 "2015-08-20T15:25:14Z")
This thing could spiral out of control into a full-blown peace scare! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/698 "2015-08-20T15:28:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > According to [this link](http://www.juancole.com/2015/08/inspect-nuclear-facilities.html), the assertions that Iran will be able to do their own inspections and take their own samples without IAEA present are entirely false. According to the link, “The accord actually provides for the inspectors of the International Atomic Energy Agency always to be present at such inspections”. So even if Iranians are doing the inspections or taking samples, _they’re doing so in the presence of IAEA inspectors_. The purpose of this is to assuage Iran’s fears that the inspectors might conduct espionage in sensitive facilities. Apples and oranges. juancole link does not talk about inspections at Parchin. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/699 "2015-08-20T15:34:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Apples and oranges. juancole link does not talk about inspections at Parchin. The link discusses inspections in general, in relation to the very recent assertions that Iranians will be performing their own inspections. The link says, essentially, that in some cases they will, but they will be monitored by IAEA in real time – IAEA will be there looking over their shoulder. So the way IAEA will verify that the samples are legit is by watching them take the sample. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/700 "2015-08-20T15:38:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Apples and oranges. juancole link does not talk about inspections at Parchin. [Interestingly](http://www.vox.com/2015/8/20/9182185/ap-iran-inspections-parchin), the AP article’s details of what may happen at Parchin seems to be changing more than… than… it’s changing a lot. And by the way, [here](https://www.iaea.org/press/?p=5108) is a statement from the head of the IAEA saying that the inspection arrangement has been misrepresented, but that it meets all of the IAEA’s requirements. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=36)