# Nuclear deal with Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128 "2015-07-14T11:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/901 "2015-08-28T11:45:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > This deal has nothing to do with peace. That is correct. Without a nuclear bomb Iran will always be at danger from US agression. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/902 "2015-08-28T11:48:14Z")
Given what they probably want a nuke for, them having nukes would actually increase the chance of US attack. I believe they want a nuclear shield so that they can expand their worldwide terror campaign and believe themselves untouchable. That assumption would be a terrible miscalculation on their part. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/903 "2015-08-28T12:18:22Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The fact that they’re generals. Generals are just as likely to be as wrong as Rabbis, but they’re likely to be wrong in different ways. > > I don’t even blame them for putting U.S. interests ahead of world peace. They’re U.S. Generals, and their loyalty is tied very closely to the U.S. And of course those are American Rabbis and their loyalty is not tied very closely to the U.S. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/904 "2015-08-28T12:54:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Given what they probably want a nuke for, them having nukes would actually increase the chance of US attack. I believe they want a nuclear shield so that they can expand their worldwide terror campaign and believe themselves untouchable. Ah isn’t projection a wonderous thing. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/905 "2015-08-28T13:06:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And of course those are American Rabbis and their loyalty is not tied very closely to the U.S. Right? As priests I assume their loyalty is tied most closely to their religion. Other than that they are just normal citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/906 "2015-08-28T13:09:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Explain how that argument cannot be used against those who say the sanctions should go back when Iran gets caught cheating. “Yeah, Iran may have not kept their commitment to do A, B, or C, but they are doing D and D is what keeps them from getting nukes! If we reimpose sanctions they’ll stop cooperating on D!” Because under the agreement, Iran cannot obtain a nuclear weapon. Period. If they are cheating, then they can obtain a nuclear weapon and the deal has failed. You’re wrong because the point of the agreement isn’t to conduct inspections. That’s called a “self-licking ice cream cone.” The point of the agreement is to stop Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon, and if they are doing things to obtain a weapon, the deal has failed. The main problem in debating this point is that you seem not to understand some basics about this issue - why the agreement was pursued, what breakout is, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/907 "2015-08-28T13:48:44Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > As priests I assume their loyalty is tied most closely to their religion. Other than that they are just normal citizens. “Rabbi” is not a “priest”. A rabbi is a graduate of a yeshiva - which is your run of the mill Orthodox Jewish religious school. I am sure some of those generals/admirals went to Catholic schools. Yet Trinopus still does not doubt their loyalty to the US somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/908 "2015-08-28T14:02:02Z")
Ok, we get it, you’ve got a thing about connecting Judiasm and Israel. Why don’t you say what substance of the two letters you think is particularly good, and what the realistic alternative is to either the deal or war? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/909 "2015-08-28T14:10:10Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Ok, we get it, you’ve got a thing about connecting Judiasm and Israel. Why don’t you say what substance of the two letters you think is particularly good, and what the realistic alternative is to either the deal or war? Tell me - all those people from Obama administration who claimed that “bad deal is worse than no deal” - what was their realistic alternative to a “bad deal”? The demagoguery is amazing on this one. If that was the thinking - that there is no “realistic alternative” to a deal - then Iran held every card and the US was bluffing, and was caught out bluffing. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/910 "2015-08-28T14:12:23Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “Rabbi” is not a “priest”. A rabbi is a graduate of a yeshiva - which is your run of the mill Orthodox Jewish religious school. I am sure some of those generals/admirals went to Catholic schools. Yet Trinopus still does not doubt their loyalty to the US somehow. Doesn’t “Rabbi” mean teacher (of the Torah)? Seems disingenuous to say their schooling is similar to a Catholic school rather than a seminary. You’re saying it’s just like a Catholic graduating from Notre Dame? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/911 "2015-08-28T14:23:08Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Doesn’t “Rabbi” mean teacher (of the Torah)? Seems disingenuous to say their schooling is similar to a Catholic school rather than a seminary. You’re saying it’s just like a Catholic graduating from Notre Dame? I have a friend in NYC who is Orthodox and who went to a yeshivah as you went to a high school. At the end of the yeshivah, to graduate, he passed the “smichah” exam. Since he passed it, he is a “rabbi” now. He does not teach Judaism, he does not lead any congregations, and works in insurance industry. He’s definitely not a “priest”. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/912 "2015-08-28T14:23:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Tell me - all those people from Obama administration who claimed that “bad deal is worse than no deal” - what was their realistic alternative to a “bad deal”? The alternative to a “bad deal” would be continued (perhaps intensified) sanctions, or military action. I think that when the administration talked about a “bad deal,” they contemplated a deal that wouldn’t include very rigorous inspections, for example, or any mechanism to reimpose sanctions in the event of violations. Of course, none of the parties to this agreement view it as a bad deal. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/913 "2015-08-28T14:24:23Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > The alternative to a “bad deal” would be continued (perhaps intensified) sanctions, or military action. Well you answered your own question. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/914 "2015-08-28T14:31:04Z")
In fact, correct me if I’m wrong but it seems like the badness of this deal in the eyes of critics really boils down to three things: 1. It allows Iran to maintain a token nuclear program (to which it has a right as a signatory to the NPT), albeit under extremely close supervision 2. It has an expiration date, as opposed to being forever and ever until the end of time 3. It relieves Iran of the sanctions that were only imposed in the first place in order to get Iran to agree to restrictions on its program All three of these are viewed by most of the world as eminently reasonable aspects of the deal. So if you want to talk about demagoguery, you’re really going after the wrong side of the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/915 "2015-08-28T14:32:03Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I have a friend in NYC who is Orthodox and who went to a yeshivah as you went to a high school. At the end of the yeshivah, to graduate, he passed the “smichah” exam. Since he passed it, he is a “rabbi” now. He does not teach Judaism, he does not lead any congregations, and works in insurance industry. He’s definitely not a “priest”. … and to follow up on that - even if you are only looking at the “pulpit rabbis”, **Trinopus** ’s questioning of their loyalty to the US is disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/916 "2015-08-28T14:35:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I have a friend in NYC who is Orthodox and who went to a yeshivah as you went to a high school. At the end of the yeshivah, to graduate, he passed the “smichah” exam. Since he passed it, he is a “rabbi” now. He does not teach Judaism, he does not lead any congregations, and works in insurance industry. He’s definitely not a “priest”. How many Rabbis that signed that letter work in the insurance business I wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/917 "2015-08-28T14:37:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Well you answered your own question. No - the point is that this deal is better\* than the alternative of indefinitely maintaining sanctions, and certainly better than the alternative of war. \*If not in _our_ eyes, certainly better in the eyes of our P5+1 partners, upon whom we depend to maintain effective sanctions. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/918 "2015-08-28T14:47:34Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > No - the point is that this deal is better\* than the alternative of indefinitely maintaining sanctions, and certainly better than the alternative of war. I disagree. Indefinitely maintaining sanctions is better. And just because Europeans have traditionally put their financial interests above their security interests doesn’t mean we have to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/919 "2015-08-28T15:03:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I have a friend in NYC who is Orthodox and who went to a yeshivah as you went to a high school. At the end of the yeshivah, to graduate, he passed the “smichah” exam. Since he passed it, he is a “rabbi” now. He does not teach Judaism, he does not lead any congregations, and works in insurance industry. He’s definitely not a “priest”. Well, OK, then how is it that his position as a “rabbi” is of any significance more than any other functionary of the insurance industry? Would you offer us a letter signed by ten thousand used car salesmen? If the importance of rabbis to the discussion is not based upon their religious calling, what is it based upon? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/920 "2015-08-28T15:20:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Tell me - all those people from Obama administration who claimed that “bad deal is worse than no deal” - what was their realistic alternative to a “bad deal”? You know that when they said “a bad deal is worse than no deal,” they weren’t actually saying they made a bad deal, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=47)